This is not normal: Trump's tweet storm

#351
#351
luthervol said:
You may understand it better if I give you an example. Where does your right to make noise in your apartment meet your neighbor's right to not be subjected to the noise?
If you still do not understand, let me know and I'll come up with another example.
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I give up certain rights when I move into that apartment, terrible example on your part.
 
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#352
#352
hog88 said:
Again with the group think. If the mob controls the rights of the individual the society isn't free. Why is that a hard concept for you to understand?
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By this logic, any country with laws is not a free country.

Why are we more free than a country where marijuana is legal?
 
#353
#353
hog88 said:
Again with the group think. If the mob controls the rights of the individual the society isn't free. Why is that a hard concept for you to understand?
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It's called a balance......been there since the Clan of the Caveman. Why can you not process that?
Grot wanted to bang rocks together all night in the cave, his fellow cave dwellers told him that as a group they decided that he could no longer bang rocks between the times of tuk and hik. Grot was informed that if he really needed to bang rocks during that time, he was welcomed to go outside and bang away, being sure to keep one eye out for the saber tooth. Grot was also told he was free to go and find another cave.
 
#354
#354
hog88 said:
I give up certain rights when I move into that apartment, terrible example on your part.
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The apartment was analogous to a town, or city, or county, or state, or country. Stretch the old mind a tad.
 
#355
#355
tvolsfan said:
By this logic, any country with laws is not a free country.

Why are we more free than a country where marijuana is legal?
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You have a good point there. IMO all drugs should be legal.

No country is 100% free but without freedom of speech and the ability to be armed there is nothing preventing the rest of your freedom from being stripped away from you.
 
#357
#357
hog88 said:
McCain did not support good policy, he was a warmonger that used his office for personal gain (he was worth over $200 million when he died). He was not the "maverick" he claimed to be, he was not a good person the press made him out to be and it's time to stop fawning over the man and actually look at his record.
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Your words don’t match your actions other words.

You defended or were at least glib about a totally fabricated story that had nothing to do with his record.

You ignored my remarks on McCain-Feingold.

You made some conclusory statements about your opinion of McCain.

None of that addresses his record.

P.S. nobody thought he was a saint until the cheerleader effect took hold with Trump in office.
 
#359
#359
RockyTop85 said:
Your words don’t match your actions other words.

You defended or were at least glib about a totally fabricated story that had nothing to do with his record.

You ignored my remarks on McCain-Feingold.

You made some conclusory statements about your opinion of McCain.

None of that addresses his record.

P.S. nobody thought he was a saint until the cheerleader effect took hold with Trump in office.
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I didn't address the meme about McCain at all so how do you get that I defended or was glib about it?

McCain-Feingold was terrible legislation and later proved to be unconstitutional. The legislation completely ignored union spending while limiting corporate spending.

His record is quite clear, he supported every war we have engaged in since he took office.
 
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#360
#360
hog88 said:
You have a good point there. IMO all drugs should be legal.

No country is 100% free but without freedom of speech and the ability to be armed there is nothing preventing the rest of your freedom from being stripped away from you.
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I don’t really disagree, but even then, our rights in those areas aren’t completely unlimited.
 
#362
#362
luthervol said:
The apartment was analogous to a town, or city, or county, or state, or country. Stretch the old mind a tad.
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This seems like you are, to some extent, disagreeing about semantics.

IMO, what you’re describing is not “freedom.” In a vacuum, I have the right to make as much noise as I damn well please and screw you and your desire to be free from such noise, unless you can stop me.

However because such disputes are counter-productive, and/or because I don’t particularly value my “right” to do certain things, and/or because, in your example, there would likely be enough people annoyed by the noise to stop me, I’m willing to voluntarily surrender a certain degree of freedom in order to cohabitate in a community with other people.

It doesn’t make me or the community more free, but it might still provide a net benefit.
 
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#363
#363
hog88 said:
No they are not.
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Antonin Scalia argued that our greatest guarantee of freedom doesn’t actually come from our bill of rights but from our separation of powers. I tend to agree with his argument.
 
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#364
#364
tvolsfan said:
Antonin Scalia argued that our greatest guarantee of freedom doesn’t actually come from our constitution or bill of rights but from our separation of powers. I tend to agree with his argument.
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In a sense he's correct but it was the constitution that mandated that separation.
 
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#366
#366
hog88 said:
I didn't address the meme about McCain at all so how do you get that I defended or was glib about it?

McCain-Feingold was terrible legislation and later proved to be unconstitutional. The legislation completely ignored union spending while limiting corporate spending.

His record is quite clear, he supported every war we have engaged in since he took office.
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You absolutely made a glib comment that was dismissive of complaints about that meme. That’s why I chose to respond to you.

“Politicians who are corrupt and use their position for self gain are wrong to do so.”
And
“McCain-Feingold was terrible legislation that was rightly held to be unconstitutional.”

Are two contradictory philosophies. It wasn’t a panacea for the stated problem but it was a step in the right direction that could have gained momentum.

As far as whether it was constitutional, I have a ton of respect for Anthony Kennedy but Citizens United remains one of the worst decisions of the 21st century, so far. There are several glaring problems with that case on a purely legal, nonpartisan basis.

I’m not disputing his record on war. I’m saying he was decent, not perfect. The need to make everything or everyone black or white is what leads to people making crap up.
 
#367
#367
RockyTop85 said:
You absolutely made a glib comment that was dismissive of complaints about that meme. That’s why I chose to respond to you.

“Politicians who are corrupt and use their position for self gain are wrong to do so.”
And
“McCain-Feingold was terrible legislation that was rightly held to be unconstitutional.”

Are two contradictory philosophies. It wasn’t a panacea for the stated problem but it was a step in the right direction that could have gained momentum.

As far as whether it was constitutional, I have a ton of respect for Anthony Kennedy but Citizens United remains one of the worst decisions of the 21st century, so far. There are several glaring problems with that case on a purely legal, nonpartisan basis.

I’m not disputing his record on war. I’m saying he was decent, not perfect. The need to make everything or everyone black or white is what leads to people making crap up.
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You'll have to point those out to me. I don't recall what if anything I posted about that meme.

No McCain-Fiengold was not a step in the right direction, it could have been if it treated the unions the same as it did corporations but McCain failed to do so. It was terrible legislation.

Citizens United was the correct decision, congress could write campaign finance legislation that would comply if they wanted to.

I rarely bring up his service record and that has nothing to do with why I have thought he was a terrible person for years.
 
#368
#368
hog88 said:
It is not analogous in any way. The apartment is not a government entity, it is a private organization. A government at any level should have protecting individual liberty as its no1 goal.
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Go to the cave man example.
I'm glad to see you at least said # 1 goal instead of only goal.
 
#369
#369
utvolpj said:
He's asking federal agencies to look into a comedy show for making fun of the president.

Also, what grown man with a kinda important job tweets 29 times in a night?
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He is not really going to do a criminal investigation..... he is talking trash trying to get others to react and off their games.... it worked amazing during the election....
 
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