Thoughts After Reading The Letter...

[DD4ME]

Uh, the way he handled it is the only thing anybody has a problem with. Nobody cares about the stupid cookout. Nobody on this board is wringing his hands about the fact that Pearl made too many phone calls.



Nice of you to reframe character as cowardice. This is college sports; there are other values in play here than just winning. If that's all you care about, you should stick to pro sports.

I don't only care about W's and I'm glad others don't either but I'm not naive about why were all here. It isn't a bible study board. My main point is I think we do a pretty sloppy job of "impersonating" a dirty program.
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[Vols4us]

I wouldn't quite say inept because CBP was fully aware of his actions. Negligent is more suitable. CBP came forward on his own, confronted the media, and said what he needed to say. From this action and the university self-imposing punishments, UT has a good case, in my opinion, to keep CBP on board. SEC commissioner Mike Slive furthered that punishment. Not to mention, the $1.5 million CBP is scheduled to lose is actually more around the figure of $2 million if you note the benefits that he would have received.

There is no way to justify his actions; however, CBP has done well in attempting to amend those actions. I truly think that he feels remorse and understands that he owes something of great value to the institution. Moreover, if UT gets rid of him, as fans we can say good-bye to a relevant basketball program. Naming off possible replacements is irrelevant because no coach of any prominent stature would take over the UT basketball program simply because it did not exist before CBP.

I understand and respect your opinion. From what I understand Pearl got his hand caught in the cookie jar and had no other option but to own up to it when the photo appeared and Craft and his dad started talking. There is some value with being proactive in punishing on the league level and reducing his comp to send the message to the AA that they were serious about it all. Yet what I always heard from attorneys I worked with on a bad business deal or loan was "what did you know and when did you know it" and "I need a detailed timeline of the events with supporting documentation to back your position." My observation was that there was nobody as good as David Blackburn pulling CYA duty on documentation for the basketball program. There were a lot of impermissible phone calls - not a limited number that could be explained away. There is the weenie roast. There is all the smoke with the Craft's. There is the Saban bump after he cries like a goob for the cameras on his apology tour. I don't know how you can rebuild trust and credibility with parents of players and recruits, fans, administration, the AA, the media, the league, officials, etc. As small as the violations are the volume of them shows total disregard for the rules.

Most folks believe that history is the best predictor of future actions/success. We don't have to accept the mediocrity anymore - Pearl has proven a good coach can be successful on a major scale at UT. We have the facilities, fan support, recruiting territory, etc. We have the money to pay for top flite talent, and money talks very loudly. After the season is over they should reassess where everything stands. My personal opinion is that they should start over - Pandora's Box is open and the program will get worse from here. I have been wrong before and will be wrong again, however, the smell test tells me its the right thing to do for the university for the long term.

 

[Vols4us]

Good post. Post more often.

Thanks and plan to. I think we share a common view of most things on here based on past observations.

 

[jp1]

Uh, the way he handled it is the only thing anybody has a problem with. Nobody cares about the stupid cookout. Nobody on this board is wringing his hands about the fact that Pearl made too many phone calls.



Nice of you to reframe character as cowardice. This is college sports; there are other values in play here than just winning. If that's all you care about, you should stick to pro sports.

Posted via VolNation Mobile so its okay to cheat just dont lie? Doubt that all will go with you on that one

 

[JuicyBrucey]

Pearl committing yet another Major Violation in only a matter of days after his public cryfest.

What are you talking about?

 

[Vercingetorix]

so its okay to cheat just dont lie? Doubt that all will go with you on that one

What I mean is that if we were sitting here with a coach who'd just been dinged for extra phone calls and the cookout, almost nobody would be worried about it. This board would be about as concerned as Georgia football fans are about his secondary violations -- ie, not at all. We'd be talking about basketball and whether Hopson and Harris are going pro.

There's a continuum of things that are considered cheating. On one end, you have something like failure to properly document a telephone call; on the other, you have an envelope containing $200,000. At some point along that line it stops being ticky-tack stuff and starts being actual Cheating with a capital C. I doubt there are any college fans in the country who actually care much about the ticky-tack stuff. Nobody's going to rend his clothes and howl that a coach is unfit to represent his university over your typical secondary violation.

 

[hatvol96]

What I mean is that if we were sitting here with a coach who'd just been dinged for extra phone calls and the cookout, almost nobody would be worried about it. This board would be about as concerned as Georgia football fans are about his secondary violations -- ie, not at all. We'd be talking about basketball and whether Hopson and Harris are going pro.

There's a continuum of things that are considered cheating. On one end, you have something like failure to properly document a telephone call; on the other, you have an envelope containing $200,000. At some point along that line it stops being ticky-tack stuff and starts being actual Cheating with a capital C. I doubt there are any college fans in the country who actually care much about the ticky-tack stuff. Nobody's going to rend his clothes and howl that a coach is unfit to represent his university over your typical secondary violation.

The thing none of Pearl's sycophants want to address is the fact that he was lying to cover up the fact he had intentionally and flagrantly violated a rule he had been cited for breaking at Milwaukee.

 

[LawVol13]

The thing none of Pearl's sycophants want to address is the fact that he was lying to cover up the fact he had intentionally and flagrantly violated a rule he had been cited for breaking at Milwaukee.

Most of them don't even know what Pearl has done. Completely ignorant.

 

[lego126]

At this point, the best interest of the school has to be the only thing that Hamilton or anyone with any decision-making influence considers. The "Bruce Pearl's done so much" stuff doesn't work anymore because rewarding what he's done on the court by keeping him now comes at a huge price. They might consist of: major sanctions being taken against our basketball program, an absolute PR nightmare (which is already taken place), and an overall sense that we are willing to place winning at a decent level in basketball above having any integrity.

I've long maintained that if Pearl could get less than 1 year suspension then I wouldn't argue with retaining him. However, I'm quite sure the 'AA isn't going to look fondly on Pearl committing yet another Major Violation in only a matter of days after his public cryfest.

Bottomline, at this point, it seems that an objective analysis would lead any rational person to the conclusion that the cost of keeping Pearl far outweighs the benefits of keeping him. It's truly a sad day for the University of Tennessee, and we can only hope that the people in power do the right thing for the future of the program.

I'm sure someone alredy corrected you by now, but the violation that was committed days after the press conference was garbage. It was a 3 min. conversation with a recruit. It happens all the time at countless universities across the country. Get your facts straight!!! :clapping: Go and read the letter, it's called a "bump rule" I'm not saying breaking any rules is ok by any means.I'm just saying it's not what your making it out to be.

 

[lego126]

The thing none of Pearl's sycophants want to address is the fact that he was lying to cover up the fact he had intentionally and flagrantly violated a rule he had been cited for breaking at Milwaukee.

From what I read.... Pearl did not invite the recruit's to his house. There was a bb-q and one or some of our current players told them about it they showed up. If this did happen, I'm sure CBP was a deer in the HL when he seen them pulling up the driveway, and just didn't wanna say," u can't be here." I may be wrong, I'll have to go back and read it again.

 

[LawVol13]

I'm sure someone alredy corrected you by now, but the violation that was committed days after the press conference was garbage. It was a 3 min. conversation with a recruit. It happens all the time at countless universities across the country. Get your facts straight!!! :clapping: Go and read the letter, it's called a "bump rule" I'm not saying breaking any rules is ok by any means.I'm just saying it's not what your making it out to be.

Good point. The 'AA was just joking when they classified it a Major Violation. Try at least having some idea what you're talking about. It will make your time here much more pleasant.

 

[tvols75]

Good point. The 'AA was just joking when they classified it a Major Violation. Try at least having some idea what you're talking about. It will make your time here much more pleasant.

This is going to be the deciding point in my opinion. I had heard from someone when the letter was released that Hamilton knew about the incident they cited and thought it wouldn't hold up. Hubbs confirmed what that person told me in the war room tonight, when he said that while UT's athletic department didn't make light of the bump incident, they felt like at the very least it would be reduced but also think that it will be thrown out. The visit was going to watch the practice of several prospects in both the 2011 and 2012 class. It will be interesting to see what, if anything, comes of this one. If he indeed violated a rule, then there is no way to justify it. But it seems like the person I talked to yesterday was right when he said Hamilton and others felt like this one wouldn't hold up.

 

[lylsmorr]

It'd be nice if it did get reduced. You have to admit, though, that it was pretty stupid of him to do it at that particular time and considering his circumstances.

 

[LawVol13]

This is going to be the deciding point in my opinion. I had heard from someone when the letter was released that Hamilton knew about the incident they cited and thought it wouldn't hold up. Hubbs confirmed what that person told me in the war room tonight, when he said that while UT's athletic department didn't make light of the bump incident, they felt like at the very least it would be reduced but also think that it will be thrown out. The visit was going to watch the practice of several prospects in both the 2011 and 2012 class. It will be interesting to see what, if anything, comes of this one. If he indeed violated a rule, then there is no way to justify it. But it seems like the person I talked to yesterday was right when he said Hamilton and others felt like this one wouldn't hold up.

Even Hubbs said he violated the rule. The question is: can they make the classification as a Major Violation stick? My opinion, which may be worth nothing, is that the 'AA wouldn't have made it a Major Violation if Pearl hadn't purposely orchestrated the "bump" or something like that.

 

[LawVol13]

From what I read.... Pearl did not invite the recruit's to his house. There was a bb-q and one or some of our current players told them about it they showed up. If this did happen, I'm sure CBP was a deer in the HL when he seen them pulling up the driveway, and just didn't wanna say," u can't be here." I may be wrong, I'll have to go back and read it again.

I think re-reading the letter would be wise.

 

[jp1]

What I mean is that if we were sitting here with a coach who'd just been dinged for extra phone calls and the cookout, almost nobody would be worried about it. This board would be about as concerned as Georgia football fans are about his secondary violations -- ie, not at all. We'd be talking about basketball and whether Hopson and Harris are going pro.

There's a continuum of things that are considered cheating. On one end, you have something like failure to properly document a telephone call; on the other, you have an envelope containing $200,000. At some point along that line it stops being ticky-tack stuff and starts being actual Cheating with a capital C. I doubt there are any college fans in the country who actually care much about the ticky-tack stuff. Nobody's going to rend his clothes and howl that a coach is unfit to represent his university over your typical secondary violation.

Good post and I agree. Just giving u crap for arguments sake. Now hats comment below yours i will not agree with. First off Im not sure if I am one of these so called "sycophants" because i admit he made mistakes and should be punished justly,however even though he did commit the same violation at uwm no one but you and your sycophants would be talking about this if he hadnt lied. For your mental health hatvol i suggest finding a new hobby.
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[knowthevols]

Good post and I agree. Just giving u crap for arguments sake. Now hats comment below yours i will not agree with. First off Im not sure if I am one of these so called "sycophants" because i admit he made mistakes and should be punished justly,however even though he did commit the same violation at uwm no one but you and your sycophants would be talking about this. For your mental health hatvol i suggest finding a new hobby.
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good one

 

[knowthevols]

It'd be nice if it did get reduced. You have to admit, though, that it was pretty stupid of him to do it at that particular time and considering his circumstances.

Just curious, but, what would you have done if a possible recruit had come up and spoke to you? Tell them shut the f*** up or would you have been cordial and told the kid that you could not be speaking to them.
Either is a violation. Let's wait and find out what really happened.

 

[tvols75]

Even Hubbs said he violated the rule. The question is: can they make the classification as a Major Violation stick? My opinion, which may be worth nothing, is that the 'AA wouldn't have made it a Major Violation if Pearl hadn't purposely orchestrated the "bump" or something like that.

Pretty sure what Hubbs means by saying that is what the NCAA said. Hubbs doesn't know what happened, he is basing it off the NCAA report. Like I said this is the deciding point in my opinion. Pearl had to be there because there were, I think, 4 prospects for 2011 and 2012. But did he sit down and have a talk with a kid is the question or was it more of an accident.

Side note: This isn't taking up for Bruce or any other coach in this situation because they know the rules. However, I find it really weird that a coach can go watch the practice of these kids, but he cannot talk to them. That just seems odd to me.

 

[knowthevols]

Pretty sure what Hubbs means by saying that is what the NCAA said. Hubbs doesn't know what happened, he is basing it off the NCAA report. Like I said this is the deciding point in my opinion. Pearl had to be there because there were, I think, 4 prospects for 2011 and 2012. But did he sit down and have a talk with a kid is the question or was it more of an accident.

Side note: This isn't taking up for Bruce or any other coach in this situation because they know the rules. However, I find it really weird that a coach can go watch the practice of these kids, but he cannot talk to them. That just seems odd to me.

good post

 

[UT IE 95]

Good point. The 'AA was just joking when they classified it a Major Violation. Try at least having some idea what you're talking about. It will make your time here much more pleasant.

I've seen you reference this as a Major Violation a couple of times. Then when questioned, you flame off and call people ignorant.

Without flaming or being derogatory, where are reading this? If it's the NOA, please reference the section.

 

[JZVOL]

I've seen you reference this as a Major Violation a couple of times. Then when questioned, you flame off and call people ignorant.

Without flaming or being derogatory, where are reading this? If it's the NOA, please reference the section.

It is, but I can't remember what section. Hubbs said UT is going to try to argue it's way out of it being a major since it happens so often.

 

[UT IE 95]

It is, but I can't remember what section. Hubbs said UT is going to try to argue it's way out of it being a major since it happens so often.

Four days after the September press conference, Pearl and Jones committed a secondary violation when they made impermissible contact with Jordan Adams of Lawrenceville, Ga., on a visit to Oak Hill Academy, according to the document.

NCAA finds 'failure' at UT GoVolsXtra

Conflicting info. That's why I'm looking for a reference to the NOA. Since there's plenty of flaming, I'm looking for the specifics.

 

[Orange Blazer]

NCAA finds 'failure' at UT GoVolsXtra

Conflicting info. That's why I'm looking for a reference to the NOA. Since there's plenty of flaming, I'm looking for the specifics.

Ordinarily the "Bump" rule is a secondary violation. However, the NCAA labeled it as a Major violation because of all the scrutiny that Pearl was under at the time. UT is going to argue that you can't just make it a major violation for one school when every school in the country does this on a daily basis.

 

[hatvol96]

Ordinarily the Bump rule is a secondary violation. However, the NCAA labeled it as a Major violation because of all the scrutiny that Pearl was under at the time. UT is going to argue that you can't just make it a major violation for one school when every school in the country does this on a daily basis.

The NCAA has clear language in their rules stating that secondary violations may be deemed major if they are intentional, flagrant, and part of a pattern of noncompliance. If UT makes the argument you are advocating, they've lost their damn minds.