Thoughts After Reading The Letter...

#176
#176
jp1 said:
Totally disagree. If they knew it was a violation and they agreed then they have a hand in it too. Not laying equal blame just saying. Was cam newtons dad not in essence cheating when he had his hand out knowing this was against the rules?
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Cam Newton's dad was risking his son's eligibility. Aaron Craft's dad was not. I don't know if it's exactly "cheating" to risk your son's eligibility when he's not enrolled as a student-athlete anywhere, but it's not in the same category as what the Crafts were doing.

There's no National Association of Players' Fathers whose rules Craft's dad was violating. Pearl was the one breaking the rules, not Craft. If you and I are high school kids, and we go out on a Friday night and I have an early curfew and you don't, should you get in any trouble if we stay out so late that I get grounded?
 
#177
#177
BigPapaVol said:
And surely Pearl will the benefit of the doubt in a he said, she said scenario. I like that situation.
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Just reading the facts in the NOA, it doesn't say Pearl told them to lie. It says John Craft believed the conversation was trying to influence him.

I understand perception being reality, but if Pearl told him to lie, wouldn't the allegation say as much? Rather it uses vague language alluding to an interpretation of a phone call.
 
#178
#178
UT IE 95 said:
Just reading the facts in the NOA, it doesn't say Pearl told them to lie. It says John Craft believed the conversation was trying to influence him.

I understand perception being reality, but if Pearl told him to lie, wouldn't the allegation say as much? Rather it uses vague language alluding to an interpretation of a phone call.
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Why the call at all?
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#179
#179
So his he wouldnt be affected at all if he had come to ut and all this come out?
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#182
#182
UT IE 95 said:
Just reading the facts in the NOA, it doesn't say Pearl told them to lie. It says John Craft believed the conversation was trying to influence him.

I understand perception being reality, but if Pearl told him to lie, wouldn't the allegation say as much? Rather it uses vague language alluding to an interpretation of a phone call.
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Pearl lies to NCAA investigators about the photo and the cookout, and then immediately walks out and calls the Crafts to discuss the cookout. It surpasses my capacity of disbelief to entertain the idea that he was calling them for anything other than to influence their own testimony.

If you want to split some mythical hair between a guy who has just lied about something trying to "influence the testimony" of others about it and actually blatantly "asking them to lie," then go ahead.
 
#183
#183
chaset22 said:
I think it is ridiculous to say that him lying is any different than any other violation. A violation is a violation. What he did was wrong and I'm not condoning it at all. However, nobody can sit here and bash Bruce for all of this stuff when 99% of coaches in any collegiate sport do the same thing. The only difference is that Bruce just got caught. Yeah he made a dumb decision by trying to lie about it, but you can't find a coach in NCAA who doesn't commit the same violations or worse. He is human, just like everyone else, so you can't expect him to be perfect in every area. Who can honestly say that if they were in his shoes that they wouldn't have done the same thing?
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But the fact is if he just tells the truth none of this happens. We get a slap on the wrist from the 'AA and we move forward. He doesn't get suspended, which IMO saves us from losing to FLorida and Arkansas. If he knew this was a violation and lied about it then I think he truly needs to be fired..
 
#184
#184
LawVol13 said:
Maybe I'm missing something. I'm assuming that the "show-cause doesn't apply to us" argument would be used at the hearing where Tennessee gets to make its case before the punishment is handed down. If that's the case, I think that that argument would be about the worst thing one could come up with if we're trying to lessen the punishment.
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The NCAA is already laughing or possibly outraged by the games Hamilton is playing in trying to keep his star coach from being fired. The way to assure that the program is bashed beyond recognition is to continue to play stupid games in an effort to keep Pearl on board. Acting as if the show cause would only apply to others is about the most stupid position that the university could possibly take in this matter.
 
#185
#185
Vercingetorix said:
Pearl lies to NCAA investigators about the photo and the cookout, and then immediately walks out and calls the Crafts to discuss the cookout. It surpasses my capacity of disbelief to entertain the idea that he was calling them for anything other than to influence their own testimony.

If you want to split some mythical hair between a guy who has just lied about something trying to "influence the testimony" of others about it and actually blatantly "asking them to lie," then go ahead.
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Most of the document is written very clearly. Unfortunately, this particular item leaves plenty of room for speculation.

Where is it in the letter that Pearl asked the kid to lie? I see the call to the father where he feels his statements are being influenced, but not the kid, family, etc.
 
#186
#186
Vercingetorix said:
Pearl lies to NCAA investigators about the photo and the cookout, and then immediately walks out and calls the Crafts to discuss the cookout. It surpasses my capacity of disbelief to entertain the idea that he was calling them for anything other than to influence their own testimony.

If you want to split some mythical hair between a guy who has just lied about something trying to "influence the testimony" of others about it and actually blatantly "asking them to lie," then go ahead.
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Let's just pretend that they developed such a close relationship that he was just calling to say Hi, how's the weather in Ohio? No doubt the NCAA would buy this about as much as they've bought every thing else Pearl tried to sell them.
 
#187
#187
UT IE 95 said:
Most of the document is written very clearly. Unfortunately, this particular item leaves plenty of room for speculation.

Where is it in the letter that Pearl asked the kid to lie? I see the call to the father where he feels his statements are being influenced, but not the kid, family, etc.
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There was a finding that he contacted the kid. I found it the last time this discussion came up.
 
#188
#188
BasketvolsFan said:
The NCAA is already laughing or possibly outraged by the games Hamilton is playing in trying to keep his star coach from being fired. The way to assure that the program is bashed beyond recognition is to continue to play stupid games in an effort to keep Pearl on board. Acting as if the show cause would only apply to others is about the most stupid position that the university could possibly take in this matter.
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How do you know what the NCAA is thinking or doing? What games is Hamilton playing exactly? From what has been reported, nothing Hamilton wasn't already expecting to come down did. Also, Hamilton and staff were able to get the "Failure to Monitor" charge to be placed on Kiffin instead of the University. I may be wrong, but those appear to be two wins for Tennessee and Hamilton.
 
#189
#189
boomer020 said:
But the fact is if he just tells the truth none of this happens. We get a slap on the wrist from the 'AA and we move forward. He doesn't get suspended, which IMO saves us from losing to FLorida and Arkansas. If he knew this was a violation and lied about it then I think he truly needs to be fired..
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So it's okay to break the rules, you just can't lie about it? Again, I'm not condoning him lying... At all. And if any coach who has ever lied and/or broken violations deserves to be fired, then bye-bye coaches.

PS... The only reason you actually have the balls to put anything on here Boomer is because you are my roommate an you always love trying to argue anything I say. Haha
 
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#190
#190
Orange Blazer said:
How do you know what the NCAA is thinking or doing? What games is Hamilton playing exactly? From what has been reported, nothing Hamilton wasn't already expecting to come down did. Also, Hamilton and staff were able to get the "Failure to Monitor" charge to be placed on Kiffin instead of the University. I may be wrong, but those appear to be two wins for Tennessee and Hamilton.
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I don't think people understand how big of a win that one was.
 
#191
#191
Orange Blazer said:
How do you know what the NCAA is thinking or doing? What games is Hamilton playing exactly? From what has been reported, nothing Hamilton wasn't already expecting to come down did. Also, Hamilton and staff were able to get the "Failure to Monitor" charge to be placed on Kiffin instead of the University. I may be wrong, but those appear to be two wins for Tennessee and Hamilton.
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If he's going to try to argue that the show-cause won't apply to Tennessee, he's absolutely playing a game. And, it's one that will have really, really bad consequences.
 
#192
#192
Orange Blazer said:
How do you know what the NCAA is thinking or doing? What games is Hamilton playing exactly? From what has been reported, nothing Hamilton wasn't already expecting to come down did. Also, Hamilton and staff were able to get the "Failure to Monitor" charge to be placed on Kiffin instead of the University. I may be wrong, but those appear to be two wins for Tennessee and Hamilton.
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There was no failure to monitor charge on the program. It was specific to Kiffin and Pearl as Head Coaches. Sadly, one of them is still there.
 
#193
#193
LawVol13 said:
If he's going to try to argue that the show-cause won't apply to Tennessee, he's absolutely playing a game. And, it's one that will have really, really bad consequences.
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If he is yes, but I haven't seen anything stating Hamilton is trying to argue that. I know Hubbs said that is a possibilty, but that is the only place I have seen it.
 
#195
#195
tigervol9802 said:
I don't think people understand how big of a win that one was.
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I don't think they do either. I know Hamilton created the mess, but so far he has done a decent job of cleaning it up. Well, with the Kiffin situation he has. Still remains to be seen with Pearl.
 
#196
#196
Orange Blazer said:
If he is yes, but I haven't seen anything stating Hamilton is trying to argue that. I know Hubbs said that is a possibilty, but that is the only place I have seen it.
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No, I don't expect him to outline his argument to the NCAA in the media. But, my point is that if he actually is planning to do that, it's a complete joke.
 
#197
#197
BasketvolsFan said:
The NCAA is already laughing or possibly outraged by the games Hamilton is playing in trying to keep his star coach from being fired. The way to assure that the program is bashed beyond recognition is to continue to play stupid games in an effort to keep Pearl on board. Acting as if the show cause would only apply to others is about the most stupid position that the university could possibly take in this matter.
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Precisely. They completely duped Hubbs into believing that was the case and he reiterated it repeatedly until finally realizing maybe something was wrong. When he started asking questions the AD's office started giving inconsistent replies. They can't even figure out how bad their b.s. is over there.
 
#198
#198
LawVol13 said:
No, I don't expect him to outline his argument to the NCAA in the media. But, my point is that if he actually is planning to do that, it's a complete joke.
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I agree. As much as I wish we could hear what Hamilton and UT's plan is, I don't think we will. I expect this to be a very closed door appeal.
 
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