Trump at least 99 percent sure to run: good or bad for nation, GOP?

[Tyler Durden]

the economy is growing slower than the one he inherited - check GDP growth for the quarters preceding his taking office

COVID is raging across the country.

Americans were left behind in Afghanistan and the POTUS broke his word on getting them out.

Traditional alliances are shaken by the disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan. Our FP stances are determined by China

He leads?

1. Objectively wrong.
U.S. real GDP growth by quarter 2021 | Statista

2. COVID is raging in conservative states that have governors and legislatures tht refuse to promote the vaccine or masks.

3. I acknowledged the Afghan withdrawal was a mess. To leave was the right move. There have been more significant military blunders before and the president was re-elected.

4. Traditional alliances questioned the Afghan withdrawal. Biden didn't threaten to leave NATO, cuddle with Putin, or fall in love with Kim Jong-Un as a result.

5. Yes, he is acting in a bipartisan manner to enact legislation (something the vast majority of the country wants), he has never catered to the woke Twitter crowd, staged a reality show competition out of a hiring process, or phoned in to Hannity.

 

[82_VOL_83]

1. Objectively wrong.
U.S. real GDP growth by quarter 2021 | Statista

2. COVID is raging in conservative states that have governors and legislatures tht refuse to promote the vaccine or masks.

3. I acknowledged the Afghan withdrawal was a mess. To leave was the right move. There have been more significant military blunders before and the president was re-elected.

4. Traditional alliances questioned the Afghan withdrawal. Biden didn't threaten to leave NATO, cuddle with Putin, or fall in love with Kim Jong-Un as a result.

5. Yes, he is acting in a bipartisan manner to enact legislation (something the vast majority of the country wants), he has never catered to the woke Twitter crowd, staged a reality show competition out of a hiring process, or phoned in to Hannity.

In your few short years on this planet have you ever really known someone with dementia?

 

[85SugarVol]

The economy is growing at a steady clip.

COVID. It's nice to have a president who takes it seriously and is doing what he can to end the pandemic. My family is able to get together without us worrying if we would infect each other with COVID.

The actual withdrawal from Afghanistan was a mess, but having the stones to actually get out of there was the right move.

Our president is restoring our traditional alliances around the world instead of catering to Russia and North Korea. Our foreign policy stances are no longer determined by the Kremlin or if the president had his feelings hurt.

He actually leads and doesn't cater to populism aka mob rule.

The Economy?

How long has Biden been in office again?

 

[volinbham]

1. Objectively wrong.
U.S. real GDP growth by quarter 2021 | Statista

2. COVID is raging in conservative states that have governors and legislatures tht refuse to promote the vaccine or masks.

3. I acknowledged the Afghan withdrawal was a mess. To leave was the right move. There have been more significant military blunders before and the president was re-elected.

4. Traditional alliances questioned the Afghan withdrawal. Biden didn't threaten to leave NATO, cuddle with Putin, or fall in love with Kim Jong-Un as a result.

5. Yes, he is acting in a bipartisan manner to enact legislation (something the vast majority of the country wants), he has never catered to the woke Twitter crowd, staged a reality show competition out of a hiring process, or phoned in to Hannity.

the 2 qtrs prior to Biden taking charge averaged over 17% - q1 21 was shared with Biden and Trump and was essentially the same as Q2 21. Biden inherited a growing economy and hasn't changed that.

COVID is up in almost every state in the country - among the highest increase is Hawaii (3x higher than it's Jan peak). COVID deaths under Biden are about 250k in just 8 months. Sadly, he may end up presiding over more COVID deaths than Trump did.

Afghanistan is a Fup

One of our strongest allies had a vote of no confidence in Biden in Parliament - has never happened before. Our allies have their own people (those they promised to remove) in Afghanistan because of #3.

He is totally catering to his base. Trump had multiple bi-partisan legislative accomplishments. Biden is as partisan as they come

 

[hUTch2002]

First, like I said, I think the Dems have to yield and let Harris have her turn. Would make too many constituencies mad if they did not give her the nod.

Second, I don't particularly like Buttigieg. He is well spoken and seems to be a moderate and is certainly not your typical bomb thrower these days. But he lacks specifics.

Speaking in generalities is as bad right now as just insulting people to delight your base.

Enough of both, already.

Interesting take considering Biden never was forced to get specific on anything. He still isn’t.

 

[TheDeeble]

I'd prefer both parties run centrists who, as you might put it, come in with a clean slate and priority on long term economic progress. Leave the culture wars out of it this time, IMO.

That'd be nice but we both know that ain't happening.

Candidates will be as if not more extreme unfortunately. Will probably be the 4th consecutive election I don't vote for either major party.

 

[Grand Vol]

Sure but 1) my avi is the only thing that most folks around here like or even tolerate about me as a poster and 2) ..... well, see # 1.

Power T for the month of September or I go with the Dumb Gator for the same amount of time.

Then you go back to the one people tolerate.

 

[lostsheep]

the 2 qtrs prior to Biden taking charge averaged over 17% - q1 21 was shared with Biden and Trump and was essentially the same as Q2 21. Biden inherited a growing economy and hasn't changed that.

COVID is up in almost every state in the country - among the highest increase is Hawaii (3x higher than it's Jan peak). COVID deaths under Biden are about 250k in just 8 months. Sadly, he may end up presiding over more COVID deaths than Trump did.

Afghanistan is a Fup

One of our strongest allies had a vote of no confidence in Biden in Parliament - has never happened before. Our allies have their own people (those they promised to remove) in Afghanistan because of #3.

He is totally catering to his base. Trump had multiple bi-partisan legislative accomplishments. Biden is as partisan as they come

So, just to make sure I'm understanding...if the economy tanks it's because Biden is in office. However, if the economy is strong then it's because of his predecessor? Makes perfect sense.

Also, exactly why do you think COVID deaths are higher during Biden's term? Two reasons: A new variant that wasn't around when donnie was in office, and the ignorant masses of donnie supporters that refuse to get vaccinated or wear a mask.

 

[n_huffhines]

The economy is growing at a steady clip.

What has Biden done to help with that?

COVID. It's nice to have a president who takes it seriously and is doing what he can to end the pandemic. My family is able to get together without us worrying if we would infect each other with COVID.

How did Biden accomplish that?

The actual withdrawal from Afghanistan was a mess, but having the stones to actually get out of there was the right move.

I'm fine with giving him credit for that but Trump deserves about as much credit for that area of foreign policy correction.

Our president is restoring our traditional alliances around the world instead of catering to Russia and North Korea. Our foreign policy stances are no longer determined by the Kremlin or if the president had his feelings hurt.

BS

He actually leads and doesn't cater to populism aka mob rule.

Subjective and vague.

 

[Weezer]

So, just to make sure I'm understanding...if the economy tanks it's because Biden is in office. However, if the economy is strong then it's because of his predecessor? Makes perfect sense.

Also, exactly why do you think COVID deaths are higher during Biden's term? Two reasons: A new variant that wasn't around when donnie was in office, and the ignorant masses of donnie supporters that refuse to get vaccinated or wear a mask.

Both sides like to cherry pick. It can easily be said Trump had to deal with COVID when it was still largely an unknown, plus he's the one that initiated the vaccines that are being used.

The truth is, COVID doesn't care if you're a Dem or a Pub. If you hold Trump responsible for the spread of COVID while he was in office, you have no legitimate argument not to hold Biden responsible for the spread of COVID while he is in office.

 

[n_huffhines]

the 2 qtrs prior to Biden taking charge averaged over 17% - q1 21 was shared with Biden and Trump and was essentially the same as Q2 21. Biden inherited a growing economy and hasn't changed that.

COVID is up in almost every state in the country - among the highest increase is Hawaii (3x higher than it's Jan peak). COVID deaths under Biden are about 250k in just 8 months. Sadly, he may end up presiding over more COVID deaths than Trump did.

Afghanistan is a Fup

One of our strongest allies had a vote of no confidence in Biden in Parliament - has never happened before. Our allies have their own people (those they promised to remove) in Afghanistan because of #3.

He is totally catering to his base. Trump had multiple bi-partisan legislative accomplishments. Biden is as partisan as they come

No he didn't. It's all fake. The only reason the economy appeared/appears to be growing is increases in government spending.

 

[rjd970]

I'm fine with giving him credit for that but Trump deserves about as much credit for that area of foreign policy correction.

So Trump deserves as much credit for withdrawing as Biden does?

Not sure i agree - if you look at the history of the Afghan conflict over past administrations you will see multiple cycles of drawing down, ramping up, drawing down, etc. Towards the end of the Trump presidency we were in another drawing down cycle. That doesn't mean Trump would have actually withdrew completely. The fact of the matter is he had 4 years to withdraw and didn't do it. Biden, for all his screw-up with the execution of it, actually made it happen. It's more than fair to say every president before Biden just continued to kick that can but never rip the band-aid off.

Biden screwed the pooch on this, but for the life of me I don't get the refusal to give him lone credit for actually doing it.

 

[n_huffhines]

So Trump deserves as much credit for withdrawing as Biden does?

Not quite. I'm not just looking at the withdrawal. I'm crediting Trump for some general quagmire avoidance, too.

Not sure i agree - if you look at the history of the Afghan conflict over past administrations you will see multiple cycles of drawing down, ramping up, drawing down, etc. Towards the end of the Trump presidency we were in another drawing down cycle. That doesn't mean Trump would have actually withdrew completely. The fact of the matter is he had 4 years to withdraw and didn't do it. Biden, for all his screw-up with the execution of it, actually made it happen. It's more than fair to say every president before Biden just continued to kick that can but never rip the band-aid off.

Biden screwed the pooch on this, but for the life of me I don't get the refusal to give him lone credit for actually doing it.

Agree with all of this.

 

[hog88]

Bad. His record of borrowing and spending as president is horrid.

Yep he was bad but not as bad as the next guy.

 

[RockyTop85]

1. Objectively wrong.
U.S. real GDP growth by quarter 2021 | Statista

2. COVID is raging in conservative states that have governors and legislatures tht refuse to promote the vaccine or masks.

3. I acknowledged the Afghan withdrawal was a mess. To leave was the right move. There have been more significant military blunders before and the president was re-elected.

4. Traditional alliances questioned the Afghan withdrawal. Biden didn't threaten to leave NATO, cuddle with Putin, or fall in love with Kim Jong-Un as a result.

5. Yes, he is acting in a bipartisan manner to enact legislation (something the vast majority of the country wants), he has never catered to the woke Twitter crowd, staged a reality show competition out of a hiring process, or phoned in to Hannity.

You remember those people who declared COVID was just a blue state thing last year? That’s like Biden supporters talking about the economy. GDP under Biden (and the last two quarters under Trump) is being propped up by previously unseen levels of spending that may come back to bite us, eventually. I think this is a wait and see, at best.

Rather than “human infrastructure” it would be nice to see our money invested in vaccine alternatives to reduce Covid. The delta variant and social media/partisan dipshittery has laid bare the limitations of mass vaccination. Something like a light bulb that emits some level of UV frequency that kills virus particles in the air to reduce viral exposure in indoor spaces seems like a plausible next step. Declaring mission accomplished on Covid because we distributed the vaccine seems shortsighted.

Biden’s foreign policy is a well-meaning disaster. Saying nice things about the right countries but then embroiling them in a huge cluster ****. I guess that’s marginally better than a malignant disaster of cozying up to authoritarians. It’s still a disaster.

I don’t think he has actually signed anything bipartisan, has he? Pretty sure Nancy still sitting on his one bipartisan achievement to use it as leverage for more partisan pork spending.

the 2 qtrs prior to Biden taking charge averaged over 17% - q1 21 was shared with Biden and Trump and was essentially the same as Q2 21. Biden inherited a growing economy and hasn't changed that.

COVID is up in almost every state in the country - among the highest increase is Hawaii (3x higher than it's Jan peak). COVID deaths under Biden are about 250k in just 8 months. Sadly, he may end up presiding over more COVID deaths than Trump did.

Afghanistan is a Fup

One of our strongest allies had a vote of no confidence in Biden in Parliament - has never happened before. Our allies have their own people (those they promised to remove) in Afghanistan because of #3.

He is totally catering to his base. Trump had multiple bi-partisan legislative accomplishments. Biden is as partisan as they come

30% GDP coming out of the lockdown was a) not a metric for presidential performance, unless you blame Trump for the lockdown and b) not a sustainable benchmark to which future presidents should be held.

The COVID thing is similarly bad. Of course he will “preside over” more covid deaths, it will be a feature of the full term of his presidency. At this point, Biden made the vaccine available to all persons regardless of income. Considerably more than half of the people dying from COVID at this point are doing so as a result of their own choices. Not sure how that’s even a government issue or what else the President could do to fix that.

To say he’s only pandering to his base is only true if you consider people who want bipartisan cooperation to be his base. He legitimately has made efforts to moderate on infrastructure and police reform to get Republican votes at the expense of progressive support. This somehow manages to be worse than the GDP argument.

 

[volinbham]

So, just to make sure I'm understanding...if the economy tanks it's because Biden is in office. However, if the economy is strong then it's because of his predecessor? Makes perfect sense.

Also, exactly why do you think COVID deaths are higher during Biden's term? Two reasons: A new variant that wasn't around when donnie was in office, and the ignorant masses of donnie supporters that refuse to get vaccinated or wear a mask.

On point one: Biden claims he inherited an economy in a free-fall - the data show the opposite; he inherited a growing economy and we've seen that growth stay at roughly the same rate. I haven't blamed him for anything other than lying about the conditions he inherited

On point two: COVID is gonna COVID. I'm not blaming him just pointing out that in a country with approximately 70% of people with some form of immunity COVID is still doing it's thing. It's growing in EVERY state; it's not Trump supporters. Sadly at our current pace as many people will die from it under Biden as did Trump in just over 100 days.

Bottomline, Tyler praised Biden for his handling of these two issues when they are basically unchanged from where they were when he came into office.

 

[volinbham]

You remember those people who declared COVID was just a blue state thing last year? That’s like Biden supporters talking about the economy. GDP under Biden (and the last two quarters under Trump) is being propped up by previously unseen levels of spending that may come back to bite us, eventually. I think this is a wait and see, at best.

Rather than “human infrastructure” it would be nice to see our money invested in vaccine alternatives to reduce Covid. The delta variant and social media/partisan dipshittery has laid bare the limitations of mass vaccination. Something like a light bulb that emits some level of UV frequency that kills virus particles in the air to reduce viral exposure in indoor spaces seems like a plausible next step. Declaring mission accomplished on Covid because we distributed the vaccine seems shortsighted.

Biden’s foreign policy is a well-meaning disaster. Saying nice things about the right countries but then embroiling them in a huge cluster ****. I guess that’s marginally better than a malignant disaster of cozying up to authoritarians. It’s still a disaster.

I don’t think he has actually signed anything bipartisan, has he? Pretty sure Nancy still sitting on his one bipartisan achievement to use it as leverage for more partisan pork spending.




30% GDP coming out of the lockdown was a) not a metric for presidential performance, unless you blame Trump for the lockdown and b) not a sustainable benchmark to which future presidents should be held.

The COVID thing is similarly bad. Of course he will “preside over” more covid deaths, it will be a feature of the full term of his presidency. At this point, Biden made the vaccine available to all persons regardless of income. Considerably more than half of the people dying from COVID at this point are doing so as a result of their own choices. Not sure how that’s even a government issue or what else the President could do to fix that.

To say he’s only pandering to his base is only true if you consider people who want bipartisan cooperation to be his base. He legitimately has made efforts to moderate on infrastructure and police reform to get Republican votes at the expense of progressive support. This somehow manages to be worse than the GDP argument.

On the bold my point is that he inherited a growing economy - and it is growing at basically the same rate that he inherited. Contrast that with his claim that the economy was in a "free-fall" when he came into office.

At the current pace, Biden will outpace Trump for COVID deaths within 1 year of being in office. The number was just over 400K when Trump came into office - we are over 660K now and averaging over 1200/day. The point is not that Biden is to blame but rather to point out that his COVID achievements aren't brag worthy. We remained on the vaccination rate pace that he inherited and COVID is doing what a virus does. Hopefully this wave will die down and he won't match Trump in a year.

 

[McDad]

Yep he was bad but not as bad as the next guy.

It's like comparing which serial killer was better. Or, comparing which Bama cheerleader is the fittest.

At some point we have to call bad bad as a stand alone judgement and not with relative judgement compared to something else.

 

[hog88]

It's like comparing which serial killer was better. Or, comparing which Bama cheerleader is the fittest.

At some point we have to call bad bad as a stand alone judgement and not with relative judgement compared to something else.

All true but that day isn’t coming.

 

[McDad]

All true but that day isn’t coming.

It came for me.

 

[hog88]

It came for me.

I’m talking about the whole.

 

[volinbham]

To say he’s only pandering to his base is only true if you consider people who want bipartisan cooperation to be his base. He legitimately has made efforts to moderate on infrastructure and police reform to get Republican votes at the expense of progressive support. This somehow manages to be worse than the GDP argument.

His "moderation" on infrastructure was to split it into 2 bills which he says must both pass. It's still an over 5 trillion play with the biggest portion being the liberal wish list. Now due to his falling ratings he may only get the infrastructure part but it's not for lack of trying to get the big progressive pie.

 

[RockyTop85]

On the bold my point is that he inherited a growing economy - and it is growing at basically the same rate that he inherited. Contrast that with his claim that the economy was in a "free-fall" when he came into office.

At the current pace, Biden will outpace Trump for COVID deaths within 1 year of being in office. The number was just over 400K when Trump came into office - we are over 660K now and averaging over 1200/day. The point is not that Biden is to blame but rather to point out that his COVID achievements aren't brag worthy. We remained on the vaccination rate pace that he inherited and COVID is doing what a virus does. Hopefully this wave will die down and he won't match Trump in a year.

I think “basically the same” is a mostly fair pivot. I think it’s too early to judge him on the economy, one way or the other. I expect it will eventually be a mess because of spending, but so far it’s maintained or slightly improved because of that spending.

I just disagree about COVID. The vaccine roll out was objectively impressive. Easily the best thing about this administration on easily the biggest issue. My life improved significantly after my parents and grandmother were able to get vaccinated, and I know I’m not alone in that. I don’t consider the setbacks to that improvement to be a government issue, although I’m sure there are many who see it differently. There are areas for improvement, but I think the COVID response has been a big positive.

 

[Grand Vol]

At this point, Biden made the vaccine available to all persons regardless of income.

That was in the works before Trump left office. You can't give credit to Biden for something that was already forecasted and budgeted.

 

[RockyTop85]

His "moderation" on infrastructure was to split it into 2 bills which he says must both pass. It's still an over 5 trillion play with the biggest portion being the liberal wish list. Now due to his falling ratings he may only get the infrastructure part but it's not for lack of trying to get the big progressive pie.

His statement about only signing both bills was the stupidest thing about his presidency until August, but he could have passed an even bigger bill, more easily, with 0 Republican votes. This is more than a little disingenuous.

My big takeaway from this is that Afghanistan and his foreign policy are such a disaster that almost nobody wants to even defend him beyond pointing out that leaving was the correct decision and beyond that it’s just standard partisan sniping. Just dumping the unhealthy Trump cult of personality is a huge improvement, of which I’m reminded every time I see somebody point out that nobody talks about how great Biden is.