UNC and Duke Basketball, 2015-16

[RDU VOL#14]

Ol' Roy getting a little salty on Gottlieb...

https://cdn2.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/6074971/Roy_Williams_Doug_Gottlieb.0.mp3

I love it. I can't stand him.

K got him a couple of years ago too.
Back in 2010 when Duke won the National Title Gottlieb said that Duke was alarmingly unathletic.

When K was asked about the comment he responded " well Doug should be an expert at being alarmingly unathletic, that's why we recruited Wojo instead of him."

 

[AV_12]

Yeah, Doug is a clown

 

[RDU VOL#14]

#gostate

 

[Chuckie]

#gostate

Duke is puke,
Wake is fake,
But the team I hate,
Is......

 

[volprof]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATeUGzCfiDg[/youtube]

This is starting to become a bad "habit" for Ted Cruz. Things like this, coupled with the "Duke Kick-Out Shot" (aka, "The Duke Fish Out of Water Flop"), clearly demonstrate that these are part of a culture that is taught by coaches and acquired by players while at Duke. K is a fine coach, as far as the actual practice of coaching goes, but this is one area that will always be a strike against his legacy (not that the media seems to give a crap), and it is probably one major factor as to why Phil Jackson has stated in the past that he prefers not to draft or acquire Duke players.

 

[volfanhill]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATeUGzCfiDg[/youtube]

This is starting to become a bad "habit" for Ted Cruz. Things like this, coupled with the "Duke Kick-Out Shot" (aka, "The Duke Fish Out of Water Flop"), clearly demonstrate that these are part of a culture that is taught by coaches and acquired by players while at Duke. K is a fine coach, as far as the actual practice of coaching goes, but this is one area that will always be a strike against his legacy (not that the media seems to give a crap), and it is probably one major factor as to why Phil Jackson has stated in the past that he prefers not to draft or acquire Duke players.

Utter nonsense and you know it. Phil doesn't like Duke guys because they don't deliver. That's the reason. Has nothing to do with what you are suggesting.

 

[NashVol11]

Yeah, Tyus Jones was definitely taught to trip people. That's why all the disgruntled players that have transferred out of Duke have mentioned those teachings a grand total of zero times. Definitely a strike against K's legacy.

 

[NashVol11]

Good thing there's that giant media conspiracy to cover it up. It's not like ESPN has repeatedly shown video of the incident last night or anything

 

[spankadelphia]

:huh:

Nice athletic program you have there.

 

[spankadelphia]

Step 1: Punish the athletic programs for impermissable benefits (academic fraud).

Who: NCAA

What: Post season bans, scholarship reductions, win forfeitures, banners down


Now, on to the serious stuff:

Step 2: Punish the CRIMINALS who fraudulently dispensed Schedule 2 medications to student athletes, apparently to (a) make an LD/ADHD classification look more legitimate (if we classified them as ADHD, we better give them the meds so it won't look like a fake diagnosis) and (b) to get a double benefit of amping up these very same student athletes for better athletic performance

Who: DEA, FBI

What: Jail time for every MD, PhD, Academic Support Counselor, Athletic Department official who knowingly (passively or actively) participated in this criminal enterprise.

 

[volprof]

Yeah, Tyus Jones was definitely taught to trip people. That's why all the disgruntled players that have transferred out of Duke have mentioned those teachings a grand total of zero times. Definitely a strike against K's legacy.

Stop being such a homer. I figured this would get you all riled up, because, like most fans, you can dish it out concerning an opponent's coach (Roy) but can't take it when it concerns your guy. If I can criticize Roy, then you're capable of criticizing K from time to time. It doesn't mean he isn't a good coach, but you have to accept it as a bit of a stain on his legacy. You have to accept the good with the bad.

What Ted Cruz has being doing this season (and I don't know how you look at that video and think he didn't do that intentionally, because extending your leg that far out behind you is one of the most unnatural movements a human can make) is institutional. I can't think of another program where incidents like this occur with this kind of frequency; it is obviously taught. Duke is one of the few programs in the country, that I can think of off the top of my head, where players consistently appear to flop (either during shots or while defending) when no opponent is sufficiently at cause, to trip opponents (Ted Cruz is not the only one over the years), and to aggressively handle their opponents in manners outside the rules. (The latter is admittedly more of an exception, but no one can convince me that incidents like the Gerald Henderson-Tyler Hansbrough encounter were not actually intentional, no matter what Billy Packer says.)

Come on, just admit it. You can still keep all your titles. No one is taking that away from you, so I don't see why you can't just admit it. We don't see stuff like this from UNC, or many other big-time programs for that matter, so clearly it has to be institutional at Duke. Is Duke just coincidentally one of the few programs whose players just happen to consistently make "incidental contact" with opponents in unlikely manners from time to time?

 

[volprof]

Utter nonsense and you know it. Phil doesn't like Duke guys because they don't deliver. That's the reason. Has nothing to do with what you are suggesting.

Perhaps, but that's an interesting sidenote to the conversation this thread had about a month back considering NBA talent coming out of Duke/UNC and the motives of top recruits in choosing Duke lately.

 

[NashVol11]

Stop being such a homer. I figured this would get you all riled up, because, like most fans, you can dish it out concerning an opponent's coach (Roy) but can't take it when it concerns your guy. If I can criticize Roy, then you're capable of criticizing K from time to time. It doesn't mean he isn't a good coach, but you have to accept it as a bit of a stain on his legacy. You have to accept the good with the bad.

I've criticized K and Duke players plenty of times. Saying he systematically teaches his players to do what Allen did, after he just called Leonard Hamilton today to apologize, is a reflection of your bias much more than mine.

 

[volprof]

I've criticized K and Duke players plenty of times. Saying he systematically teaches his players to do what Allen did, after he just called Leonard Hamilton today to apologize, is a reflection of your bias much more than mine.

Why do his players keep doing it so consistently though? The phone call is good to hear about, but it makes no real difference if we don't witness changes on the floor; thus far, we've witnessed no changes. But maybe K is going soft in his youthful old age, and this is a sign of a commitment to change. I've noticed that Duke players haven't flopped around like a bunch of fish this season to the degree they have in the past. In particular, I haven't noticed the Fish Flop Shot this season, which was so popular with several Duke perimeter shooters the past decade, so it's possible K is finally trying to change that culture.

I just don't see how you can think this is all mere coincidence, considering that Duke is practically the only country in the program where things like this have occurred consistently over the past two to three decades, but every fan is entitled to be a fan, I suppose. Just one more thing that makes sports special.

 

[AV_12]

Step 1: Punish the athletic programs for impermissable benefits (academic fraud).

Who: NCAA

What: Post season bans, scholarship reductions, win forfeitures, banners down


Now, on to the serious stuff:

Step 2: Punish the CRIMINALS who fraudulently dispensed Schedule 2 medications to student athletes, apparently to (a) make an LD/ADHD classification look more legitimate (if we classified them as ADHD, we better give them the meds so it won't look like a fake diagnosis) and (b) to get a double benefit of amping up these very same student athletes for better athletic performance

Who: DEA, FBI

What: Jail time for every MD, PhD, Academic Support Counselor, Athletic Department official who knowingly (passively or actively) participated in this criminal enterprise.

Sup

 

[RDU VOL#14]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATeUGzCfiDg[/youtube]

This is starting to become a bad "habit" for Ted Cruz. Things like this, coupled with the "Duke Kick-Out Shot" (aka, "The Duke Fish Out of Water Flop"), clearly demonstrate that these are part of a culture that is taught by coaches and acquired by players while at Duke. K is a fine coach, as far as the actual practice of coaching goes, but this is one area that will always be a strike against his legacy (not that the media seems to give a crap), and it is probably one major factor as to why Phil Jackson has stated in the past that he prefers not to draft or acquire Duke players.

I wouldn't call that a "habit". I would call winning 12 of the last 15 a habit.

 

[volprof]

I wouldn't call that a "habit". I would call winning 12 of the last 15 a habit.

Criticize Ol' Daggum Roy, and we're all supposed to accept it. Criticize Lord Satan, and you all get defensive.

I just don't understand why you all can't accept facts. I come in here bringing you the facts, and all you all want to do is object. He's still a good coach; he just has some shady character issues regarding how he evidently instructs his players.

Look, it's clearly a culture, and it has been at Duke since at least the Laettner years. Players and teams at one program don't consistently flop around often at no contact, trip others (Allen isn't the only one over the years, as you well know), and punk defenseless opponents out (Henderson is not the only one over the years, as you also well know) for nearly thirty years straight if it isn't something systemic in Duke's basketball culture. As we all know, the culture of any given sports program begins and ends with its head coach.

I don't understand why we can't just call this for what it is, but I know it's hard when your god has been attacked. It was hard for UNC fans to accept some difficult facts about Dean as well.

 

[NashVol11]

To recap: a Carolina fan, based on what he can remember off the top of his head, claims it's a "fact" that Duke plays dirtier than everyone else (how shocking) and is coached to do so. Everyone who dares to challenge that, well, they're the biased ones.

 

[NashVol11]

And that's before we get to the idea that Phil Jackson, the guy about to hire Kurt Rambis or Brian Shaw over Tom Thibodeau because they run his stupid offense, is being held up as the guy with bulletproof reasoning.

 

[RDU VOL#14]

Criticize Ol' Daggum Roy, and we're all supposed to accept it. Criticize Lord Satan, and you all get defensive.

I just don't understand why you all can't accept facts. I come in here bringing you the facts, and all you all want to do is object. He's still a good coach; he just has some shady character issues regarding how he evidently instructs his players.

Look, it's clearly a culture, and it has been at Duke since at least the Laettner years. Players and teams at one program don't consistently flop around often at no contact, trip others (Allen isn't the only one over the years, as you well know), and punk defenseless opponents out (Henderson is not the only one over the years, as you also well know) for nearly thirty years straight if it isn't something systemic in Duke's basketball culture. As we all know, the culture of any given sports program begins and ends with its head coach.

I don't understand why we can't just call this for what it is, but I know it's hard when your god has been attacked. It was hard for UNC fans to accept some difficult facts about Dean as well.

There are definitely things that I am critical about towards K. I think Allen has demonstrated some pretty ****ty actions at times this year. I think it's more of a gritty mindset than anything else. Always competing and fighting.

Also, I wasn't being defensive, I was stating facts as well. 12 of 15. Just having fun, as suspect the Heels will next weekend.

 

[volprof]

To recap: a Carolina fan, based on what he can remember off the top of his head, claims it's a "fact" that Duke plays dirtier than everyone else (how shocking) and is coached to do so. Everyone who dares to challenge that, well, they're the biased ones.

It's all just one giant coincidence, I'm sure. A 30 year long giant coincidence.

 

[NashVol11]

It's all just one giant coincidence, I'm sure. A 30 year long giant coincidence.

Right. It's a coincidence that the guy saying Duke is by far the dirtiest team in America, basing this "fact" on absolutely nothing but anecdotal evidence, happens to be a fan of Duke's biggest rival. Let me guess: the dirtiest football program is Ala-salami?

I'm glad you brought up 30 years, because it highlights the fact that there have been literally thousands of coaches, players, and managers involved with Duke basketball in that time frame. Gregg Williams and his bounties got reported to the NFL after 4 months with the Saints. If Duke players are taught to trip and/or injure other players, why haven't any of those thousands of people across three decades said a word about it?

 

[LittleCat]

Right. It's a coincidence that the guy saying Duke is by far the dirtiest team in America, basing this "fact" on absolutely nothing but anecdotal evidence, happens to be a fan of Duke's biggest rival. Let me guess: the dirtiest football program is Ala-salami?

I'm glad you brought up 30 years, because it highlights the fact that there have been literally thousands of coaches, players, and managers involved with Duke basketball in that time frame. Gregg Williams and his bounties got reported to the NFL after 4 months with the Saints. If Duke players are taught to trip and/or injure other players, why haven't any of those thousands of people across three decades said a word about it?

But haven't a lot of people already talked about the flopping issue with Duke players?

 

[NashVol11]

But haven't a lot of people already talked about the flopping issue with Duke players?

This arose from Grayson Allen tripping someone, probably intentionally. Saying Duke players are instructed to do things like that is very different from saying they're taught to sell charge calls, which would be a non-issue anyway.

 

[RDU VOL#14]

I would rather my team kick out the leg on threes and try to force a call or flop than have them be coached to hold the ball like a punk ass ***** for more than half the game.

That means exactly what you think it means UNC fans.