United States, Cuba to normalize relations

#176
#176
I'm wondering if the subject of the industries Castro nationalized will come up.

American companies lost a lot of money when he seized their assets.
 
#177
#177
VolsNSkinsFan said:
Your hero shouldve negotiated basic rights for Cuba. Cuban people are going to get killed over this.

"Hi Castro, we will build an embassy in Havana if you allow access to the Internet"

Seems like a fair trade to me.
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Why would Cubans die over this?
 
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#179
#179
Grand Vol said:
I'm wondering if the subject of the industries Castro nationalized will come up.

American companies lost a lot of money when he seized their assets.
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Isn't the Cuban government dependent on Venezuela and Russia for support? I can't see anyway they could pay reparations for things they seized.

I support lifting the Embargo because it will likely help the Cuban people who have a very tough life.
 
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#180
#180
Grand Vol said:
I'm wondering if the subject of the industries Castro nationalized will come up.

American companies lost a lot of money when he seized their assets.
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Indeed. I am also wondering if this issue is simply going to be swept under the rug. Lots of US companies lost millions when Castro nationalized. However, I tend to believe those businesses were largely corrupt in the first place and fed off the impoverished situation that was Cuba before Castro. Thus, I don't feel that sorry for them but it may make some businesses hesitant, as it should, to invest in Cuba for the future.

But if I were Cuban I would hate America too. And it would have nothing to do with Castro telling me to, but by me simply picking up a history book and reading about the Roosevelt Corollary.
 
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#181
#181
OldandStillaVol said:
Isn't the Cuban government dependent on Venezuela and Russia for support? I can't see anyway they could pay reparations for things they seized.

I support lifting the Embargo because it will likely help the Cuban people who have a very tough life.
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Solid. I think a lot of people miss this point in an effort to 'punish' the regime. The Castro's aren't going to miss any meals with or without the embargo but ordinary Cuban's are.

Just like many of you don't like Obama, many of the Cuban's don't like Castro - the difference is we have Netflix and drive Audi's while they are oppressed into poverty none of us could fathom.

Geopolitics aside, the lifted embargo is the right thing to do for the people. It's interesting that Rubio, whose own parents were victims has decided to fight the lifted embargo. Fascinating...
 
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#182
#182
When people make fools of themselves and act like children and get called out for it, why do the mods remove the evidence?

Leave it up for all to see, please. If we know who is disingenuous in discussion, we can avoid them and make better conversation here.
 
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#183
#183
Septic said:
Solid. I think a lot of people miss this point in an effort to 'punish' the regime. The Castro's aren't going to miss any meals with or without the embargo but ordinary Cuban's are.

Just like many of you don't like Obama, many of the Cuban's don't like Castro - the difference is we have Netflix and drive Audi's while they are oppressed into poverty none of us could fathom.

Geopolitics aside, the lifted embargo is the right thing to do for the people. It's interesting that Rubio, whose own parents were victims has decided to fight the lifted embargo. Fascinating...
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I think we can point to our relations with China as an example for Cuba. The regime in China had to loosen controls and allow more individual freedom once the average citizen got a taste of the western lifestyle.
 
#184
#184
Septic said:
Solid. I think a lot of people miss this point in an effort to 'punish' the regime. The Castro's aren't going to miss any meals with or without the embargo but ordinary Cuban's are.

Just like many of you don't like Obama, many of the Cuban's don't like Castro - the difference is we have Netflix and drive Audi's while they are oppressed into poverty none of us could fathom.

Geopolitics aside, the lifted embargo is the right thing to do for the people. It's interesting that Rubio, whose own parents were victims has decided to fight the lifted embargo. Fascinating...
Click to expand...

I agree with this point. The embargo has not worked in 56 years, will it work in 66 years? Why punish the Cuban captives? I do think Obama could have negotiated some material changes in human rights rather than just drop it. We did hold all of the cards.
 
#185
#185
IPleadInsanity said:
I agree with this point. The embargo has not worked in 56 years, will it work in 66 years? Why punish the Cuban captives? I do think Obama could have negotiated some material changes in human rights rather than just drop it. We did hold all of the cards.
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Who's to say no human right issues were addressed in the negotiations? I don't know..

At any rate, first chance any of you get - buy some Havana Club 7. Possibly the best rum you'll ever have. If you like Flor de Cana - you'll love this.
 
#186
#186
mrorange211 said:
Indeed. I am also wondering if this issue is simply going to be swept under the rug. Lots of US companies lost millions when Castro nationalized. However, I tend to believe those businesses were largely corrupt in the first place and fed off the impoverished situation that was Cuba before Castro. Thus, I don't feel that sorry for them but it may make some businesses hesitant, as it should, to invest in Cuba for the future.

But if I were Cuban I would hate America too. And it would have nothing to do with Castro telling me to, but by me simply picking up a history book and reading about the Roosevelt Corollary.
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You really just can't wait to point the finger at America any chance you can get do you? Are you going to join the "I hate America" club with Ras here soon?

And the same argument could be made about Chinese workers today. Or Vietnam. Or India. Or any number of companies that pay pennies for labor that have shipped jobs overseas.
 
#187
#187
Septic said:
Geopolitics aside, the lifted embargo is the right thing to do for the people. It's interesting that Rubio, whose own parents were victims has decided to fight the lifted embargo. Fascinating...
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I can see the reason he would fight it as the embargo was put in place by Congress. And Congress is the part of the government that is supposed to lift it. Problem being is enacting an EO to lift them without Congressional approval (if it comes to that) is yet another example of Obama thumbing his nose at the separation of powers.

The POTUS certainly can reestablish diplomatic relations with Cuba if he deems it's time. But undoing a Congressional Act and Public Law needs to go through the proper channels. And as I stated in the beginning, there are a LOT of things Congress has done over the years to be undone and can't just be done with a pen and a phone.
 
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#188
#188
Septic said:
Who's to say no human right issues were addressed in the negotiations? I don't know..

At any rate, first chance any of you get - buy some Havana Club 7. Possibly the best rum you'll ever have. If you like Flor de Cana - you'll love this.
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I don't get the Cuban cigars though. Monte Cristo #2 sure, maybe Punch. But I've had Dominican and Honduran that were just as good or better than most Cuban cigars.

From Cuban stock though...
 
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#189
#189
agent|orange said:
Well, to be fair, the US is a huge reason behind both figures.

Open up Cuba and we get access to their beaches, cuisine (which is amazing), rum and cigars. They get access to our technology products and agriculture.

It's a win/win for both nations economically. Not to mention softening our stance is a segue to better relationships with South America.

If we're a smart hegemon, we'll try to prevent BRICS from spreading. But I'm not entirely sold that we're a smart hegemon.
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Yeah. True. But cigars and rum is hardly something to build an economy on. The tourism thing has a certain value, but again, not overly huge in terms of GDP... at least not as a sole industry. It will be very in vogue however for a number of years, and will generate lots of money, but after the fervor dies down, maybe not so much. It will be interesting to watch though. I'll bet you will be able to walk on the backs of all the airliners that will be going there though and never get your feet wet.
 
#190
#190
Grand Vol said:
You really just can't wait to point the finger at America any chance you can get do you? Are you going to join the "I hate America" club with Ras here soon?

And the same argument could be made about Chinese workers today. Or Vietnam. Or India. Or any number of companies that pay pennies for labor that have shipped jobs overseas.
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If you were Cuban you would hate America too and it could have something to do with Castro and it could not. And I'm not talking about jobs genius. I am talking about the fact that America told them that we would rescue them from the evil Spanish only to put into place the Foraker Act immediately following. What did that do? Well it said that Cuba could make no international treaties or extend their commercial interests without American consent. Oh yeah, and it also made the Cubans give us part of their island for a freaking military base. Grow the f*** up. It's not that I am anti-American. I just don't have on my red, white, and blue glasses on.
 
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#191
#191
Septic said:
Solid. I think a lot of people miss this point in an effort to 'punish' the regime. The Castro's aren't going to miss any meals with or without the embargo but ordinary Cuban's are.

Just like many of you don't like Obama, many of the Cuban's don't like Castro - the difference is we have Netflix and drive Audi's while they are oppressed into poverty none of us could fathom.

Geopolitics aside, the lifted embargo is the right thing to do for the people. It's interesting that Rubio, whose own parents were victims has decided to fight the lifted embargo. Fascinating...
Click to expand...

That's because he knows the only beneficiary of this will be Castro and his cronies, not the common folk..
 
#192
#192
Grand Vol said:
You really just can't wait to point the finger at America any chance you can get do you? Are you going to join the "I hate America" club with Ras here soon?

And the same argument could be made about Chinese workers today. Or Vietnam. Or India. Or any number of companies that pay pennies for labor that have shipped jobs overseas.
Click to expand...

I was about to respond but just shook my head. Not worth the breath
 
#193
#193
Grand Vol said:
I don't get the Cuban cigars though. Monte Cristo #2 sure, maybe Punch. But I've had Dominican and Honduran that were just as good or better than most Cuban cigars.

From Cuban stock though...
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srs.gif


So you have either:

A: Never smoked a Cuban

B: Smoked a Cuban but were to drunk.high to remember

C: Trying to state an opinion that is so absurd that hopefully it will garner some likes.
 
#196
#196
mrorange211 said:
If you were Cuban you would hate America to and it could have something to do with Castro and it could not. And I'm not talking about jobs genius. I am talking about the fact that America told them that we would rescue them from the evil Spanish only to put into place the Foraker Act immediately following. What did that do? Well it said that Cuba could make no international treaties or extend their commercial interests without American consent. Oh yeah, and it also made the Cubans give us part of their island for a freaking military base. Grow the f*** up. It's not that I am anti-American. I just don't have on my red, white, and blue glasses on.
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Coming from someone who worked with 80,000 Cuban refugees in 1994 when they decided to camp out in GITMO, I think I got a pretty good idea where a lot of the Cuban people stand on Castro.

And you might want to check on your "facts" about Guantanamo Bay Naval Station. Find out how much rent we've paid over the years per the original basing agreement. We didn't force it, they let us rent the land.
 
#197
#197
hog88 said:
Sure Castro and his cronies will profit from this but in the long run so will the average Cuban.
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This is why I like you. Though we don't agree you still possess basic common sense regardless of political position. Couldn't agree more.
 
#198
#198
mrorange211 said:
srs.gif


So you have either:

A: Never smoked a Cuban

B: Smoked a Cuban but were to drunk.high to remember

C: Trying to state an opinion that is so absurd that hopefully it will garner some likes.
Click to expand...

Yeah, because I didn't have access to Cuban cigars when I spent nearly seven years of my life overseas where such things weren't illegal.

And I do all my posting for likes. You should have realized that by now...
 
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#199
#199
Grand Vol said:
Coming from someone who worked with 80,000 Cuban refugees in 1994 when they decided to camp out in GITMO, I think I got a pretty good idea where a lot of the Cuban people stand on Castro.

And you might want to check on your "facts" about Guantanamo Bay Naval Station. Find out how much rent we've paid over the years per the original basing agreement. We didn't force it, they let us rent the land.
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I was in the Peace Corps for two years in Panama. Guess who knows everything about what the Panamanians think?????

This-Guy-Jim-Halpert-The-Office.gif



See how stupid that was?
 
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