Urban Meyer - Lucky or Great coaching?

#76
#76
No, I'm just trying to gather whether or not you were disappointed with the head coach at UT after the 1998 season. That is all. It seems that you were, and that's ok. :peace2:

I was hopeful when Majors got fired, that UT would go out and hire a proven winner as a coach. Instead UT hired Major's offensive coordinator. The coordinator for an offense that most people, including me, thought was too conservative. I was disappointed.

Fulmer proved he was the 2nd best coach in the conference during that time, Spurrier being the best. But I never was sure this was the best coach available because UT never mentioned any other candidates they considered that I remember. I felt Fulmer was in the right place at the right time and was an alum. Like I said earlier, I thought he was fortunate, or lucky.
 
#78
#78
I was hopeful when Majors got fired, that UT would go out and hire a proven winner as a coach. Instead UT hired Major's offensive coordinator. The coordinator for an offense that most people, including me, thought was too conservative. I was disappointed.

Fulmer proved he was the 2nd best coach in the conference during that time, Spurrier being the best. But I never was sure this was the best coach available because UT never mentioned any other candidates they considered that I remember. I felt Fulmer was in the right place at the right time and was an alum. Like I said earlier, I thought he was fortunate, or lucky.
Fair enough. Thanks for answering. :peace2:
 
#79
#79
Im a TN fan, but alot of what happened in 98 was luck...they should have lost to Syracuse on the first game, and who could forget the Arkansas game? So its kinda hard to say Fulmer had "great coaching" that year, it was more raw talent with a mixture of luck
 
#80
#80
i guess it's safe to say that to win the national championship you need both great coaching and luck...but it just seems like urban has gotten a lot of the latter....
 
#81
#81
Im a TN fan, but alot of what happened in 98 was luck...they should have lost to Syracuse on the first game, and who could forget the Arkansas game? So its kinda hard to say Fulmer had "great coaching" that year, it was more raw talent with a mixture of luck

A lot of raw talent. That team that won the national championship and team consecutive SEC titles had NFL players such as Jamal Lewis, Al Wilson, Travis Henry, Peerless Price, Deon Grant, and Peyton Manning (won an SEC title his sr year).

We haven't had a collection of talent like that since. And just think, we needed luck to win that year.
 
#82
#82
It is not luck gentlemen. Tim Tebow is on that team, and singlehandedly won everygame. A reliable Gainesville source told me that Tim was not really present for the Auburn game and that his twin brother Tex Tebow filled in that day.
 
#84
#84
UF dominated us when it came to our rushing attack but didn't dominated with their rushing attack. Yes, they had their way and managed to get a RB over 100 yards against us. They had the slight upper hand for sure, but to say dominated or significantly better in the whole game doesn't fit.

There was no slight upper hand. UT got their asses handed to them that day. I'm glad UT only lost by one.

UF dominated on the D line.
UT had -11 yards rushing.

Deshawn Wynn had over a 100.


That is a very simple explanation as to which team is better.
 
#85
#85
UF dominated us when it came to our rushing attack but didn't dominated with their rushing attack. Yes, they had their way and managed to get a RB over 100 yards against us. They had the slight upper hand for sure, but to say dominated or significantly better in the whole game doesn't fit.

We were dominated. DeShawn Wynn averaged 4.7 yards per carry. We were outgained by 100 yards. The game shouldn't have been that close.
 
#86
#86
The fact is that every team has luck every year, but it's only the team that wins it all that seems to have benefitted the most, and so people tend to think they were more lucky than anyone else. All the luck that a team like Baylor might have had doesn't get talked about because they weren't good enough to take advantage of it. Conversely, the best teams are also going to be the best at taking advantage of their luck, and so naturally they'll seem to be the most lucky.

What's more, I think there is a little confusion about what luck really is. When you design your punt coverage in such a way so as to allow your cover guys a clean break down the middle of the field, is it luck then when the punt returner fumbles it and you're right there to recover? When you design your KO coverage to go to one corner every time at a specific depth, and then one day it pays off by setting up the perfect hit that forces a fumble, is that luck? One thing I've learned over two years with coach Meyer is that he is obsessed with being the most invested team on the field and therefore puts a lot of work into all of the little things. Now if you don't see all the work he puts into these facets of the game, you may think it's just luck when the ball just seems to bounce our way, but I think coach Meyer knows it's not luck, and, in fact, he probably hopes that opponents will continue just thinking its luck so that he can maintain the advantage.

I'm thinking specifically back to the UT game in 2005 when the returner dropped the ball and we recovered. I can remember many times when a returned would muff the punt but fall right back on it because our gunners were coming from the outside and weren't really anywhere near the guy. With Meyer's punt scheme, however, we're in much better position. The snapper generally gets a clean break which not only allows us to be in position but can also cause the returner to take his eyes off the ball. When the player fumbled in the UT game, I probably thought it was pretty fortunate for us, but as things like this continued to happen throughout the season more than I could remember it happening in other seasons I realized that it had a lot to do with our unsusual scheme. It also set up well for fake punts, we had a huge one of those against Georgia that year. Now fast-forward to last year's SEC Championship game against Arkansas when we blocked a punt, faked a punt, and also recovered a fumble for a TD in much the same way.

It's no coincidence, and I think this is supported by other numbers. Our punt-return defense ranked 4th nationally last year, and 2nd nationally in 2005. We also set a school record for blocks last year with 8, including the three against USC that may have been the difference in that game. Speaking of which, were those three blocks luck against USC? If it was, the luck certainly continued when we blocked two more against Vanderbilt. Indeed, at Utah Meyer's team when from 2 blocks in his first year to 9 in his second, and at Bowling Green then went from 1 in his first year to 8.

So I think you have to be careful when you talk about luck. It's very easy to talk about how lucky the winner is without having any idea what's really going on behind the scenes. The saying that luck is what happens when perparation meets opportunity certainly seems consistent with Meyer's philosophy. Sure, if the player never fumbles we'd never have the opportunity to recover it, but under Meyer we've been prepared to take advantage of those opportunities when we get them more so than I ever remember. Luck is supposed to be inherently random, but if Meyer's been lucky for 6 straight years across three different programs, maybe it's time to recognize that there's something more there. Depending on your definition, there may or may not be luck, but there's no questioning that there's great coaching.

The bottom line ot me is that if you're going to simply say that we've been really, really lucky and just leave it at that hoping that our luck will run out, be prepared to keep losing.
 
#89
#89
The fact is that every team has luck every year, but it's only the team that wins it all that seems to have benefitted the most, and so people tend to think they were more lucky than anyone else. All the luck that a team like Baylor might have had doesn't get talked about because they weren't good enough to take advantage of it. Conversely, the best teams are also going to be the best at taking advantage of their luck, and so naturally they'll seem to be the most lucky.

What's more, I think there is a little confusion about what luck really is. When you design your punt coverage in such a way so as to allow your cover guys a clean break down the middle of the field, is it luck then when the punt returner fumbles it and you're right there to recover? When you design your KO coverage to go to one corner every time at a specific depth, and then one day it pays off by setting up the perfect hit that forces a fumble, is that luck? One thing I've learned over two years with coach Meyer is that he is obsessed with being the most invested team on the field and therefore puts a lot of work into all of the little things. Now if you don't see all the work he puts into these facets of the game, you may think it's just luck when the ball just seems to bounce our way, but I think coach Meyer knows it's not luck, and, in fact, he probably hopes that opponents will continue just thinking its luck so that he can maintain the advantage.

I'm thinking specifically back to the UT game in 2005 when the returner dropped the ball and we recovered. I can remember many times when a returned would muff the punt but fall right back on it because our gunners were coming from the outside and weren't really anywhere near the guy. With Meyer's punt scheme, however, we're in much better position. The snapper generally gets a clean break which not only allows us to be in position but can also cause the returner to take his eyes off the ball. When the player fumbled in the UT game, I probably thought it was pretty fortunate for us, but as things like this continued to happen throughout the season more than I could remember it happening in other seasons I realized that it had a lot to do with our unsusual scheme. It also set up well for fake punts, we had a huge one of those against Georgia that year. Now fast-forward to last year's SEC Championship game against Arkansas when we blocked a punt, faked a punt, and also recovered a fumble for a TD in much the same way.

It's no coincidence, and I think this is supported by other numbers. Our punt-return defense ranked 4th nationally last year, and 2nd nationally in 2005. We also set a school record for blocks last year with 8, including the three against USC that may have been the difference in that game. Speaking of which, were those three blocks luck against USC? If it was, the luck certainly continued when we blocked two more against Vanderbilt. Indeed, at Utah Meyer's team when from 2 blocks in his first year to 9 in his second, and at Bowling Green then went from 1 in his first year to 8.

So I think you have to be careful when you talk about luck. It's very easy to talk about how lucky the winner is without having any idea what's really going on behind the scenes. The saying that luck is what happens when perparation meets opportunity certainly seems consistent with Meyer's philosophy. Sure, if the player never fumbles we'd never have the opportunity to recover it, but under Meyer we've been prepared to take advantage of those opportunities when we get them more so than I ever remember. Luck is supposed to be inherently random, but if Meyer's been lucky for 6 straight years across three different programs, maybe it's time to recognize that there's something more there. Depending on your definition, there may or may not be luck, but there's no questioning that there's great coaching.

The bottom line ot me is that if you're going to simply say that we've been really, really lucky and just leave it at that hoping that our luck will run out, be prepared to keep losing.

Seriously... go do something productive rather than writing a reply that you probably started when the thread was first made... that's how long it was.

I won't even bother reading the big wall of text... but what I did get out of it was "blah blah Urban Meyer blah blah he is sexy and hot blah blah blah and his "punt schemes" force teams to muff the punts blah!"
 
#90
#90
The fact is that every team has luck every year, but it's only the team that wins it all that seems to have benefitted the most, and so people tend to think they were more lucky than anyone else. All the luck that a team like Baylor might have had doesn't get talked about because they weren't good enough to take advantage of it. Conversely, the best teams are also going to be the best at taking advantage of their luck, and so naturally they'll seem to be the most lucky.

Good post.:bow2:
 
#91
#91
Seriously... go do something productive rather than writing a reply that you probably started when the thread was first made... that's how long it was.

I won't even bother reading the big wall of text... but what I did get out of it was "blah blah Urban Meyer blah blah he is sexy and hot blah blah blah and his "punt schemes" force teams to muff the punts blah!"

Wow. I guess you're not used to seeing so many words strung together like that, but the truth is that it really didn't take that long (10 minutes, maybe?). I'm actually working on a report for tomorrow, but I occassionaly take breaks for these sorts of diversions. Don't tell anyone.

Anyway, given the sophistication of your reply, I wouldn't expect you to read my post. It is, after all, a lot of words, and since they don't conform to your current way of thinking, what would be the point in reading them?
 
#92
#92
The post does nothing to disuade me from the opinion that Florida was lucky to beat LSU and SC last year, just as UT was lucky to beat Syracuse and Arkansas in 98.
 
#94
#94
Wow. I guess you're not used to seeing so many words strung together like that, but the truth is that it really didn't take that long (10 minutes, maybe?). I'm actually working on a report for tomorrow, but I occassionaly take breaks for these sorts of diversions. Don't tell anyone.

Anyway, given the sophistication of your reply, I wouldn't expect you to read my post. It is, after all, a lot of words, and since they don't conform to your current way of thinking, what would be the point in reading them?

Now the bashing begins huh? Try insulting my intelligence face to face, not on a message board.

The fact is you came on the a UT board as a Florida fan.. tried to defend your precious Urban Meyer in a long essay. Why would I or anyone else want to hear how great you think he his?

You're trying to say he makes the gunners faster and more effective by using a different scheme on punts which causes more muffed punts... lol. Then you said they are now in better position to recover the muffed punt? You can't control the bounces on the football when someone muffs it so its just lucky if it happens to bounce right to your gunners. Get real.
 
#97
#97
Please explain what KO scheme Meyer was running on the 1st play of the NC game that made him a genius.
 

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