Urban Myth Countdown

#101
#101
Originally posted by BeltwayVol@Jul 26, 2005 8:37 AM
"most talented teams in the country"

Maybe that is where we differ.  A team that was 8-5 the last three years does not deserve to be called "one of the most talented teams in the country".  I'm sorry, I know you think the world of your quarterback that promised 4 National Titles, but has yet to even beat Tennessee. I know you think that your defense is paramount, but the fact is, it isn't.  Its true he has better than MWC talent, but he still only has "third in the SEC East" talent, and he should be very happy that Spurrier's cupboard is so bare, and that UGA lost the David's, their WR core, and Odell.  The problem for Urban is, while those teams were losing talent, Tennessee has kept almost all of it's and gained a handfull of impact Freshmen.  That is the difference I see between UF and UT, and it's more than likely not going to change between now and Sept 17.
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Let me ask you Beltway. Dont you think theres a reason Uf is a top 10 team in almost every pre-season poll? Dont you think theres a reason UF has more All-SEC'ers then anyone else in the confrence? Did they just put those guys on the team becauase Urban has had a very good coaching history? UF had the SEC's #1 offense last year, and finished higher then UT in all but one O catagory. UF finished higher then UT in all but one D catagory, so where youre getting this UT is way way better, UF has no tallent, I am not sure. We return just as much tallent as you guys, some would argue more.


P.S.- Leak never promised 4 NC.
 
#102
#102
Originally posted by GatorVille@Jul 26, 2005 10:21 AM
Let me ask you Beltway.  Dont you think theres a reason Uf is a top 10 team in almost every pre-season poll?  Dont you think theres a reason UF has more All-SEC'ers then anyone else in the confrence?  Did they just put those guys on the team becauase Urban has had a very good coaching history?  UF had the SEC's #1 offense last year, and finished higher then UT in all but one O catagory. UF finished higher then UT in all but one D catagory, so where youre getting this UT is way way better, UF has no tallent, I am not sure.  We return just as much tallent as you guys, some would argue more. 
P.S.- Leak never promised 4 NC.
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I agree Florida has just as much talent (there is one freaking "L" in the word talent; damn) as UT. For the most part, Florida out recruited UT under Zook. The only year we have had a higher ranked recruiting haul than the Gators in recent years is this year's incoming class.

That being said, talent alone does not make a champion. You also must have depth and experience, consistency and structure within your coaching system, a team philosophy/camaraderie, and senior leadership.

In my opinion this year's Tennessee team surpasses Florida in all of the above qualities, and I think the talent level is almost identical. Florida has a lot of question marks whether you want to admit it or not. No one truly knows if Urban's system will work in the SEC. No one truly knows if this Gator team will play up to its talent potential, or will blow games in the 4th quarter (Tennessee, LSU, Georgia, Mississippi State all last year) because of stupid mistakes. Meyer admitted in the Spring that while Zook got good talent, he left some holes on the depth chart, especially at LB, where Florida actually had to convert their fullback Billy Latsko (sp.?) to fill that position. Contrast that with Tennessee's three seniors at LB. Generally, the Gators are going to be younger than Tennessee. The stats on "returning starters" are deceiving, because every projected starter for UT this season (sans Colquitt and Ligon) has started multiple games, either in 2003 or 2004. All of UT's players have had the same coaches on all sides of the ball for the entire time they have been a part of the program.

Equal talent? Maybe.
Equal team? Doubt it.
 
#103
#103
And as for the reason why Florida may be considered a top ten team, that's easy.

They're overrated.

Florida has shown that they possess talented players good enough to earn Preseason All-SEC honors, but so far they have failed to show a team that is worthy of a top ten ranking.

 
#104
#104
I think I've got something we can agree on here; The reason Florida has been as terrible as they were was Zook. Nobody else, just Zook. The fourth quarter meltdowns. They are bringing in a new coach, Gator football is changing and if Meyer is successful, SEC football will be changing as well.
 
#105
#105
Thats something everyone doesnt realize milo. Most of you dont realize what coaching can do for a team, in both a positive and negative manor. Zook, is one of, if not the main reason we have done so bad the last 3 years. Urban, is one of, if not the main reason Utah/Bowling Green has done so well over the past 2-4 years. Coaching impact gmaes in a huge way, and rightfully so. Never underestimate how much a good coach can change a team, or a bad coach can change a team. Look at this, we went from preseason #1 and Orange Bowl Champs, to losers in the Outback Bowl, and 5 games on the season. Both teams had tons of talent, and the 02 team should have done just as well as the 01 team. Coaching changes everything.g
 
#106
#106
The question is can he survive on a major level. Yes, many of the posters here do have a point that it is not the MWC. But I don't think it's necesarily more difficult to coach in the SEC; it means the game is simply different. The talent level will stay relative, but the game style is going to be different. The Mountain West style is either spreads, options, complicated schemes or balanced finesse like the Pac-10. The SEC plays a generally more neanderthal style of football (I mean it as a compliment), simple football.

I think Meyer will do pretty well. I doubt he will dominate the SEC like Spurrier did, but Florida has plenty of talent going through the program so Meyer can start infusing a new style of football into the SEC. I think he will not try to out-power defenses, because that's too risky, but rather try and confuse them. It's a setup that if run well, can dismantle even the most talented defenses by trying to outsmart instead of outpower.

Just trying to stay objective here.
 
#107
#107
Originally posted by GenNeyland9@Jul 26, 2005 11:42 AM
I agree Florida has just as much talent (there is one freaking "L" in the word talent; damn) as UT.  For the most part, Florida out recruited UT under Zook.  The only year we have had a higher ranked recruiting haul than the Gators in recent years is this year's incoming class.

That being said, talent alone does not make a champion.  You also must have depth and experience, consistency and structure within your coaching system, a team philosophy/camaraderie, and senior leadership.

In my opinion this year's Tennessee team surpasses Florida in all of the above qualities, and I think the talent level is almost identical.  Florida has a lot of question marks whether you want to admit it or not.  No one truly knows if Urban's system will work in the SEC.  No one truly knows if this Gator team will play up to its talent potential, or will blow games in the 4th quarter (Tennessee, LSU, Georgia, Mississippi State all last year) because of stupid mistakes.  Meyer admitted in the Spring that while Zook got good talent, he left some holes on the depth chart, especially at LB, where Florida actually had to convert their fullback Billy Latsko (sp.?) to fill that position.  Contrast that with Tennessee's three seniors at LB.  Generally, the Gators are going to be younger than Tennessee.  The stats on "returning starters" are deceiving, because every projected starter for UT this season (sans Colquitt and Ligon) has started multiple games, either in 2003 or 2004.  All of UT's players have had the same coaches on all sides of the ball for the entire time they have been a part of the program.

Equal talent?  Maybe.
Equal team?  Doubt it.
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Nice post bro! :devilsmoke:
 
#108
#108
Originally posted by milohimself@Jul 26, 2005 7:12 PM
I think Meyer will do pretty well. I doubt he will dominate the SEC like Spurrier did, but Florida has plenty of talent going through the program so Meyer can start infusing a new style of football into the SEC. I think he will not try to out-power defenses, because that's too risky, but rather try and confuse them. It's a setup that if run well, can dismantle even the most talented defenses by trying to outsmart instead of outpower.

Just trying to stay objective here.
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Milo I dont think anyone will dominate the SEC like SOS did again. No way someone wins 4 consecutive SEC titles. Look at UGA for example. They have had some of their best teams in the past 25 yrs these past few seasons with UF going through a coaching transition and UT being young and all they could muster was one SEC title and NO NC Title shots.
 
#110
#110
Originally posted by GatorVille@Jul 26, 2005 11:21 AM
Let me ask you Beltway.  Dont you think theres a reason Uf is a top 10 team in almost every pre-season poll?  Dont you think theres a reason UF has more All-SEC'ers then anyone else in the confrence?  Did they just put those guys on the team becauase Urban has had a very good coaching history?  UF had the SEC's #1 offense last year, and finished higher then UT in all but one O catagory. UF finished higher then UT in all but one D catagory, so where youre getting this UT is way way better, UF has no tallent, I am not sure.  We return just as much tallent as you guys, some would argue more. 
P.S.- Leak never promised 4 NC.
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Simple answer to why do I think Tennessee is better..... 10-3 > 8-5.

Florida is yearly one of the most overrated teams in the country, and I also don't buy that the Zooker was all that awful. He wasn't Steve, but no one is.

Where did all those leading offensive and deffensive catrgories get you? No where. Florida, THE TEAM, can't make it happen on the field, and that starts with the field general, not the coach. Leak isn't a winner. By the way, sorry to say, but your boy Leak said that he was at Florida to "win four National Championships" and that he "wasn't going to have a girlfriend until he did win one". Media pundits raved about his "dedication", now like us, they are just laughing at him.
 
#111
#111
10-3, hmmm lets look at that shall we, ( got this from another site)


Game 1: defeat UNLV 42-17... great
Game 2: I don't know why any of us listen to any arguments... UT won on an ADMITTED refereeing blunder
Game 3: defeat Louisiana Tech 42-17... again, great
Game 4: get pissed on in knoxville by Auburn
Game 5: defeat UGa 19-14... I guess their best performance of the season... neither team played well, but UGa played worse
Game 6: defeat Ole Miss by 4.... spectacular
Game 7: defeat Alabama by 4, wonderful
Game 8: defeat South Carolina by 14... I guess that's pretty solid, what can I say, Zook beat them by 34
Game 9: lose to Notre Dame 17-13... not impressed
Game 10: defeat Vanderbilt by 5... intimidating
Game 11: defeat Kentucky by 6... awe inspiring


hmmmmm, dominant.
 
#112
#112
No goob, Tennessee beat Florida on Florida's weak ass ability to run the ball and make a first down to end the game, and then on their weak ass defense when a TRUE FRESHAMN QB moved them down the field in :40.

You're weaker than I thought if you want to claim that the refs cost Florida a damn thing.

Wanna compare Bowl Games?
 
#113
#113
I dont wanna talk about the UF/UT game, UF should have won, but we cost ourselves. Yeah the refs helped you guys, but we still cost ourselves the game


care to look at the rest of the schedule? or do u have nothing to say to it, b/c it really isnt all that impressive.
 
#114
#114
YOU BROUGHT IT UP.

The rest of the schedule was DAMNED impressive IMO. We beat the number three team in the country, on their home field, and we dominated them. To hell with your view that we played poorly. We dominated them, and were three missed FG's (all over 50 yards) away from beating them by 14. We beat a hated rival, in Alabama, and regardless the score, that's 9 out of the last 10, a feat that NO OTHER COLLEGE FOOTBALL TEAM has ever done to them. Games like S. Carolina, Ole Miss and Kentucky were games where Tennessee did something that Florida couldn't understand, and that is fight till the end and come back and win games. It's called heart, and Florida showed NONE the last three seasons.

We lost to one of only two undefeated teams, and Notre Dame, with our "third-string" QB, because of only one play.

Florida had NO major injuries and couldn't even beat Mississippi St.

You don't want to compare schedules with Tennessee. The cupcakes that Foley schedules are rivaled only by the former teams of his coaching choices.
 
#115
#115
umm mick fly...were not talking about UF, were talking about UT, and no matter how you put it, the margin of victory isnt that impressive.
 
#117
#117
Originally posted by BeltwayVol@Jul 26, 2005 6:49 PM
Simple answer to why do I think Tennessee is better..... 10-3 > 8-5.

Florida is yearly one of the most overrated teams in the country, and I also don't buy that the Zooker was all that awful.  He wasn't Steve, but no one is. 

Where did all those leading offensive and deffensive catrgories get you?  No where.  Florida, THE TEAM, can't make it happen on the field, and that starts with the field general, not the coach.  Leak isn't a winner.  By the way, sorry to say, but your boy Leak said that he was at Florida to "win four National Championships" and that he "wasn't going to have a girlfriend until he did win one".  Media pundits raved about his "dedication", now like us, they are just laughing at him.
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I have to disagree. Before 2004, my football focus was pretty much primarily on the Pac-10, and I caught Texas, Purdue and Ohio State games from time to time. So while I was aware of Spurrier and what his deal was, I didn't pay much attention to what was going on and wasn't particularly familiar with him. I think that would give me a bit of a fresher view on Zook. In college ball, it all comes from coaching. If a team wins, it comes from coaching. If a team loses, it comes from coaching. Period. I viewed Ron Zook as a terrible coach. Chris Leak had zero to do with the spectacular defensive breakdowns caused by Zook's incompetence.

Bad call or not, Florida's defense absolutely crumbled in the 4th against us.

The Gators defense allowed LSU to come back from a 14 point defecit to win the game.

They allowed Miss State to come back and win it with a last-second score.

Although they didn't exactly melt against Georgia, Florida's offense put up great numbers against the Dawgs and the Gator defense just couldn't preserve the lead.

Florida's defense broke down 4 times last season to lose the game. Four times! Chris Leak performed great all last season, and you're insinuating it's his fault the Gators lost as much as they did. Not true. Chris Leak put up great numbers and the Gator D couldn't preserve the lead, especially in the fourth quarter.

And that falls solely on Zook's shoulders. It's up to him to make sure the defense can stand strong in the fourth quarter, which Florida has not done.
 
#118
#118
Originally posted by GatorVille@Jul 26, 2005 7:17 PM
umm mick fly...were not talking about UF, were talking about UT, and no matter how you put it, the margin of victory isnt that impressive.
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That happened because of two things, I had noticed last season: Either our secondary broke down and the other team's pass game went wild on us or Fulmer simply refused to take a comfortable lead. I dunno why he does that, he just does. Last season we always played relatively conservative ball with the only exception being if we were down late in the fourth.

That's just what I noticed solely from last season.
 
#119
#119
Wow. From Pac-Ten fan, not knowing what Tennessee football is to Tennessee message board mod in less than two years.

Pretty impressive.

But I disagree that It's not on Leak's shoulders that Florida didn't do better than 8-5. I never blamed Leak for the defense, but he just doesn't do enough to win the game. He's not a winner.
 
#120
#120
I don't have the best memory in the world milo so maybe I am wrong but I seem to remember several instances in Chris Leak's career that he has had the ball in the fourth quarter with the ball in his hands and the chance to win the game. What happened...losses. Leak is still young and has a chance to prove himself but if you look at what he has done under pressure during his tenure.....all you can say is LOSE. I agree that Zook was not a good coach but Leak has done nothing to prove his worth to me as of yet.

And Gatorville you can talk all you want about our wins not being that impressive but you know and I know that our ugly wins are better than your losses and that is the bottom line. So "McFly": if you want to be critical of our team then you should be willing to defend five loss seasons and losing three out of four to us.

But I will say that our margin of VICTORY is not that great, but any victory is good enough for me.
 
#121
#121
Originally posted by BeltwayVol@Jul 26, 2005 7:45 PM
Wow.  From Pac-Ten fan, not knowing what Tennessee football is to Tennessee message board mod in less than two years.

Pretty impressive.

But I disagree that It's not on Leak's shoulders that Florida didn't do better than 8-5.  I never blamed Leak for the defense, but he just doesn't do enough to win the game.  He's not a winner.
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Alright, how about this.

@ Tenn
4/5 109yds 1td 0int

vs. LSU
3/8 26yds 0td 0int

@ MSU
6/8 97yds 0td 1int (1 rushing TD)

@ Georgia
6/7 51yds 0td 0int

Chris Leak's 4th quarter totals in Gator regular season losses in 2004:
19/28 283yds 1td 1int

I'd say those are pretty impressive fourth quarter numbers. The LSU game may be lacking a little, but Leak put Florida out to a comfortable first half lead which was then blown bit by bit by the Florida defense as LSU just chipped away at them.

But still, with numbers like that, I don't know how you can blame him; Florida's offense produced just fine, but their defense consistently sucked it up in the fourth.
 
#122
#122
I don't know milo, I don't consider 1TD (or two) in 5 quarters with the game on the line very good. Whatever his stats may reveal he did not do what it took to win those games. Where did you find those stats? I am VERY suprised that he had only one fourth quarter int in those losses.
 
#123
#123
Chris Leak's 4th quarter totals in Gator regular season losses in 2004:
19/28 283yds 1td 1int
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Care to know Ainge's stats in the fourth quarter of the Florida, Georgia, Ole Miss, Alabama, and SC Games?

18-27 259 Yards
4 TD's
1 INT
4 WINS

That last stat is what is the most important. Pretty close otherwise, except that in the Alabama game, he didn't attempt a 4th quarter pass, and in the SC game, he was 0-2. They also had the lead in the Georgia game, and so he handed the ball off alot more than he threw. So in the two games that he had to lead the Vols back, Ainge threw for three TD's and only one INT. He did what he had to do to make sure that his team won the game, REGARDLESS what the defense did.

That's the difference between a talented winner, and a talented loser.
 
#124
#124
Originally posted by vol_freak@Jul 26, 2005 9:07 PM
I don't know milo, I don't consider 1TD (or two) in 5 quarters with the game on the line very good. Whatever his stats may reveal he did not do what it took to win those games. Where did you find those stats? I am VERY suprised that he had only one fourth quarter int in those losses.
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Tallied them up from play-by-play recaps of the games. And Leak actually accounted for two TD's. I didn't include other rushing touchdowns, only TD's Leak had. There were more.

Beltway, I purposeley excluded all of Florida's wins. It was to prove that Leak actually performed quite well in fourth quarter situations.

Granted, he did not do so well against LSU but looking at that game, Florida's defense is equally, if not more complicit in the loss. And vs. Georgia, Florida never actually took the lead but their offensive showing was still very impressive.
 
#125
#125
Oh my gosh, did I ever bring up UF? Show me vol freak, show me. I talked about your margin of victory not being impressive, thats it. Nothing more. So please, show us all wehere i talked about UF and their schedule. Enlighten me.
 
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