Vaccine or not?

#3,551
#3,551
DuckInAPen said:
I think what you've written above is entirely correct and is the best way, in aggregate, to look
at these unfortunate cases.

I feel compelled, though, to say in lukeneyland's defense that he's experienced a personal loss such as makes his question about this particular case perfectly reasonable and understandably urgent for him; I expect that, were I in his shoes, I'd have the same question and doubt.

For the record, I'm a strong proponent of vaccination against covid. My wife and I had ourselves and our eldest child vaccinated as soon as we could, and we hope to have our younger children vaccinated as soon as they're eligible (assuming, of course, that the data that will soon be published is, as I expect, favorable).
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It’s a tinge of guilt to because I signed him up for the vaccine . They both had the Virus and he was doing fine, the treatment they gave him was working and his breathing was almost perfect. He is vaccinated and soon dead after various organ failures in pretty short order. Of course the death certificate says Covid, it doesn’t smell entirely right to me. His case isn’t what I base my opinion off of though, at his age I think it would be too difficult to definitely single out a singular cause.
 
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#3,553
#3,553
bamawriter said:
I'm confused. What are you getting at?
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The same I thing I have been driving at this entire time. I am not anti vax. I am actually pro vax. People who want it should be able to get it. I don't mind businesses or private individuals doing mask mandates or social distancing. I know people are dying and the vax saves lives.

What bothers me is how things get presented, and the lack of an objective, scientific based metric more than a year into this.

We call out spikes in Florida, but ignore similiar spikes elsewhere. Gibraltar, Michigan, iowa wherever. Actually havent looked at Iowa so that may be a bad example. Because spikes arent getting called put elsewhere, and no metric has been given, this entire thing is about compliance, rather protecting the public.

But that's not something the government or MSM will allow to see the light of day. That's what I am driving at. It's so Orwellian it hurts.



-I did look up Iowa, they have a spike too, with some hospitals near full ICU. I would call myself a genius except anyone being objective should have seen it coming. COVID spread is substantial or high in 90 Iowa counties, CDC says
 
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#3,554
#3,554
LouderVol said:
The same I thing I have been driving at this entire time. I am not anti vax. I am actually pro vax. People who want it should be able to get it. I don't mind businesses or private individuals doing mask mandates or social distancing. I know people are dying and the vax saves lives.

What bothers me is how things get presented, and the lack of an objective, scientific based metric more than a year into this.

We call out spikes in Florida, but ignore similiar spikes elsewhere. Gibraltar, Michigan, iowa wherever. Actually havent looked at Iowa so that may be a bad example. Because spikes arent getting called put elsewhere, and no metric has been given, this entire thing is about compliance, rather protecting the public.

But that's not something the government or MSM will allow to see the light of day. That's what I am driving at. It's so Orwellian it hurts.



-I did look up Iowa, they have a spike too, with some hospitals near full ICU. I would call myself a genius except anyone being objective should have seen it coming. COVID spread is substantial or high in 90 Iowa counties, CDC says
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There's certainly a political bent with how certain geographies are covered. I definitely agree with that. Though I will say that Michigan was being called out just a few months back. There was a period there where they had to worst situation in the entire US. It was right around the time that Whitmer's vacations came to light.
 
#3,556
#3,556
lukeneyland said:
That’s possible, but at this point I think it’s impossible to definitively say. I don’t entirely plant myself in the vaccine is bad camp. But the risk reward for someone in my demographic just doesn’t make sense. And that is my issue. At this point in time with the long term unknowns that exist it is unwise to prescribe the vaccine to everyone regardless of their risk level. I pushed for my grandparents to get vaccinated because the risk reward made sense, for healthy young people it just doesn’t. Anyway back to the Utah lady, you don’t find any of that at least slightly suspicious. I find it odd how quick the authorities were to tell us what it wasn’t, but to my knowledge they never really came up with a plausible alternative cause. Seems a bit narrow minded
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To their defense, it’s not their responsibility to give us a cause of death. That’s usually the case in any death depending on the circumstances. She could have had an MI, a brain bleed, a Pulmonary Embolism, etc, that would have happened regardless of the vaccine. Considering millions upon millions have not had this problem, it’s quite likely an unfortunate case and that it was her time regardless of the vaccine.
 
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#3,559
#3,559
kiddiedoc said:
What I wouldn't give to hear my Granddad sing off-key to his favorite old (real) country cassettes or watch another Braves game with him....
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That generation was one of a kind. I would love some more of those moments myself.

Navy CeeBee Captain, WWII Pacific. Retired TVA Engineer, has a stamp on many of the Tennessee River Dams. Active in TN Wildlife Conservation and the TN Conservation till he died, serving on governor's advisory board. Many awards for that stuff. Old fashioned character and work ethic. Literally a full page bio in the KNS when he died. His personal life was even greater. Gave you a hug that would break your back when you went to visit. Those were one of a kind people.
 
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#3,560
#3,560
bamawriter said:
There's certainly a political bent with how certain geographies are covered. I definitely agree with that. Though I will say that Michigan was being called out just a few months back. There was a period there where they had to worst situation in the entire US. It was right around the time that Whitmer's vacations came to light.
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Which is why I keep calling for consistency. I expect it from the experts. The CDC should have been able to come up with some metric by now. I wont consider them experts on the subject until they start acting like professionals.

And if that means bucking the MSM and rest of the government fine. But as it is they are only presenting the data that fits the argument while ignoring a ton more. I believe fhis lack of good information is a key reason we havent controlled this thing yet. No one is being honest, so real solutions cant be created. I also somewhat believe that we arent as all powerful as we think when it comes to fighting diseases.
 
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#3,562
#3,562
Persian Vol said:
To their defense, it’s not their responsibility to give us a cause of death. That’s usually the case in any death depending on the circumstances. She could have had an MI, a brain bleed, a Pulmonary Embolism, etc, that would have happened regardless of the vaccine. Considering millions upon millions have not had this problem, it’s quite likely an unfortunate case and that it was her time regardless of the vaccine.
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All of that is possible and I could be convinced of it were the information made available to me. However, If the authorities are going to categorically rule out her cause of death being related to the vaccine, then they are obligated to provide us with a plausible alternative cause. It seems like they are unwilling to even consider the possibility that the vaccine could be bad for some people. And in that lies my greatest concern, being the vaccine is being pushed on the collective without enough regard to its potential effect on certain categories of people. Is a one size fits all blanket treatment truly the most ethical way to go about this?
 
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#3,567
#3,567
GVF said:
That generation was one of a kind. I would love some more of those moments myself.

Navy CeeBee Captain, WWII Pacific. Retired TVA Engineer, has a stamp on many of the Tennessee River Dams. Active in TN Wildlife Conservation and the TN Conservation till he died, serving on governor's advisory board. Many awards for that stuff. Old fashioned character and work ethic. Literally a full page bio in the KNS when he died. His personal life was even greater. Gave you a hug that would break your back when you went to visit. Those were one of a kind people.
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Chief Gunner's Mate, U.S.S. South Dakota, WWII, South Pacific theater. Good chance our grandfathers fought together.
 
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#3,572
#3,572
@AthensVol2007 I actually never really went north of Forrest and Lindsey. Just wasn't anything there when I was growing up. My GF in HS lived at the corner of Forrest and Lindsey at the end of the Mayflower Ct. cul-de-sac. I lived there from 65 through graduation in 77. My folks moved back in 88 and then my sister in 98. She still teaches at the HS. I played a lot of football in that stadium. We started out in the stadium at the corner of Forrest and S. Clinton. That was where I started HS. It's now Athens Elementary. The old Elementary School was in the 1st Ave and Houston St. area. Would love to meet you next time I am down.

If you are going to use an A as your Avi.....

ZIsLmQKX_400x400.jpg
 
#3,573
#3,573
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