Vaccine or not?

[Orangeslice13]

I openly admit that I’m biased in this conversation as I’ve lost 3 people I know to Covid in the last 6 weeks. One should have had natural immunity and the other 2 were unvaccinated.
I support everyone’s right to make their own decisions. I’m quite fond of a lot of you people. Y’all are my imaginary friends. I wish nothing but the best for all of y’all.
Even you @luthervol

 

[MAD]

The article doesn't mention the group with natural immunity. It only mentions the vaccinated and others. This is probably the only virus in the history of the world where natural immunity is being discounted and it appears to be only in this country. In France where they are mandating vaccinations, they at least admit that vaccinations are not required if you've had covid.

Shots give COVID-19 survivors big immune boost, studies show

Even people who have recovered from COVID-19 are urged to get vaccinated, especially as the extra-contagious delta variant surges — and a new study shows survivors who ignored that advice were more than twice as likely to get reinfected.

 

[tnmarktx]

Shots give COVID-19 survivors big immune boost, studies show

Even people who have recovered from COVID-19 are urged to get vaccinated, especially as the extra-contagious delta variant surges — and a new study shows survivors who ignored that advice were more than twice as likely to get reinfected.

That's what I'm talking about through the history of viruses it's always been said that contracting a virus gives your immune system the whole picture of the virus and best teaches your immune system to fight it if reinfection occurs. While an mRNA vaccine just gives you the tip of the spear. This has been the practice right up until covid 19 and this new revelation is only in this country and this theory is not shared by the entire healthcare community in this country.

 

[clarksvol00]

Shouldn’t be a problem at all if the Constitution is followed. Quite easy actually. The government can steer clear of stepping in on someone’s religious beliefs.

That seems like a catch 22. The government, by forcing employers to accommodate religious beliefs, has already stepped in (not that that's a bad thing). If somebody sues, the employer has a right to argue it's pretextual and not a sincerely held religious belief.

If I were an employer with a vaccine mandate and somebody claimed it violated their religion, I'd probably just say "OK, but you have to wear a mask all day and get a covid test on a regular basis."

 

[tnmarktx]

That seems like a catch 22. The government, by forcing employers to accommodate religious beliefs, has already stepped in (not that that's a bad thing). If somebody sues, the employer has a right to argue it's pretextual and not a sincerely held religious belief.

If I were an employer with a vaccine mandate and somebody claimed it violated their religion, I'd probably just say "OK, but you have to wear a mask all day and get a covid test on a regular basis."

Could that not be construed as religious discrimination? Why would they not just follow current CDC guidelines that state everyone should be masked?

 

[clarksvol00]

Could that not be construed as religious discrimination? Why would they not just follow current CDC guidelines that state everyone should be masked?

It's a reasonable accommodation under the hypothetical that I have a vaccine requirement.

 

[tnmarktx]

It's a reasonable accommodation under the hypothetical that I have a vaccine requirement.

I guess the courts could decide that.

 

[clarksvol00]

I guess the courts could decide that.

Employers are not required to allow employees to do anything they want or completely avoid policies because of religion. They just have to provide a reasonable accommodation. Assuming a valid vaccine mandate, what, in your opinion, is unreasonable about a mask requirement for someone who has a sincerely held religious belief against the vaccine?

 

[luthervol]

I’m not against the vaccine. I’ve had my first dose and had covid in January. But the vast majority of people have mild symptoms, with or without the vaccine.

The vast majority of car accidents are minor, but it's still wise to wear a seatbelt.
The point is, however severe the symptoms you suffer from covid after having had the vaccine are, it is a safe assumption that they probably would have been worse had you not had the vaccine.

 

[luthervol]

Yeah I’ve heard that. But still there is no way for him to know the vaccine kept him from getting very sick.

I guess he took how poorly he felt and multiplied it by 10.

 

[luthervol]

I openly admit that I’m biased in this conversation as I’ve lost 3 people I know to Covid in the last 6 weeks. One should have had natural immunity and the other 2 were unvaccinated.
I support everyone’s right to make their own decisions. I’m quite fond of a lot of you people. Y’all are my imaginary friends. I wish nothing but the best for all of y’all.
Even you @luthervol

Sorry for your losses. I had a healthy friend in their early 60's die in March.

 

[hog88]

You can’t use the same math for the original Covid 19 and the Delta variant.

Why not?

 

[hog88]

there are 4.3 million dead from this thing world wide.
If you believe those numbers are inflated there’s another way to look at it.
If you take an average of deaths for the last 10 years before Covid then coincidentally we are 3.75 million deaths above where we should be.
So 3.75 million unnecessary deaths best case.
I get that it’s a small number percentage wise unless you’re in the 3.75 million

My entire point is there is no way anyone can factually claim they got less sick because they were vaccinated.

 

[overseasorange2]

Sometimes when I see some of the comments on here, I wonder if

 

[hog88]

Sometimes when I see some of the comments on here, I wonder if

Without a doubt.

 

[tnmarktx]

Employers are not required to allow employees to do anything they want or completely avoid policies because of religion. They just have to provide a reasonable accommodation. Assuming a valid vaccine mandate, what, in your opinion, is unreasonable about a mask requirement for someone who has a sincerely held religious belief against the vaccine?

When a policy is made singling an individual because of religious beliefs, it could be linked to discrimination. The courts could decide this.

 

[overseasorange2]

My entire point is there is no way anyone can factually claim they got less sick because they were vaccinated.

And I can't prove I didn't get smallpox, the measles or polio because I got those vaccines also.

 

[hog88]

And I can't prove I didn't get smallpox, the measles or polio because I got those vaccines also.

Think about your post for a second and see if you can figure out how asinine it is.

 

[MG1968]

And I can't prove I didn't get smallpox, the measles or polio because I got those vaccines also.

Not getting a disease is not the same as getting “less sick”.

 

[overseasorange2]

Think about your post for a second and see if you can figure out how asinine it is.

You should talk about asinine post. Just look back at yours and you will see plenty.

 

[hog88]

You should talk about asinine post. Just look back at yours and you will see plenty.

Ok, how exactly can anyone prove they got “less sick”? How can science prove someone got “less sick”? With a virus that most people don’t get very sick with in the first place.

 

[AM64]

No, adenovirus vector.

Has there been any thought about using the J&J vaccine as a follow on or "booster" sometime down the road after the Pfizer or Moderna vaccinations? Seems like an interesting concept, but not really knowing how things work maybe all wrong, too.

 

[overseasorange2]

Ok, how exactly can anyone prove they got “less sick”? How can science prove someone got “less sick”? With a virus that most people don’t get very sick with in the first place.

You can't prove it or disprove it. BUT allot of medical experts think so, and I will take their EDUCATED opinion over yours any day. Has anybody ever proven there is a God? Not that I know of, but a hell of allot people believe in him/her.

OK wasted too much time here anyway. Time to get to the pool....

 

[GrayWaterCanine]

Has there been any thought about using the J&J vaccine as a follow on or "booster" sometime down the road after the Pfizer or Moderna vaccinations? Seems like an interesting concept, but not really knowing how things work maybe all wrong, too.

Possible co-density and layer latency.

 

[clarksvol00]

When a policy is made singling an individual because of religious beliefs, it could be linked to discrimination. The courts could decide this.

Sure the courts will decide it. Anybody can file a lawsuit, doesn't mean they have a chance at winnning. "Reasonable accommodation" isn't something I made up, it's already the law.

In this hypo, employer did not make a policy that singles employee out, employer made a blanket policy and employee is asking to be treated differently than everyone else because of employee's religion. Employee doesn't get a free pass, just a reasonable accommodation.