Vaccine or not?

#5,926
#5,926
kiddiedoc said:
Another question would be whether employees who have recovered from infection and have serological evidence of immunity will be forced to pay extra, despite having the best proof of protection.
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Delta states the average hospitalization cost is 40k for COVID. So is 2,400 too much in surcharges?

That assumes that all unvaccinated employees catch COVID and 6% of them end up in the hospital. Seems high for a company where the average age of employment is around 40.

I have no issue with Delta charging a reasonable risk premium if its supported by the numbers. Based on the numbers Delta provided, $200 isn't supported.
 
#5,927
#5,927
BigOrangeMojo said:
Delta states the average hospitalization cost is 40k for COVID. So is 2,400 too much in surcharges?

That assumes that all unvaccinated employees catch COVID and 6% of them end up in the hospital. Seems high for a company where the average age of employment is around 40.

I have no issue with Delta charging a reasonable risk premium if its supported by the numbers. Based on the numbers Delta provided, $200 isn't supported.
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6% of 40ish people fit enough to fly are not going to hospitalized, that's for sure.
 
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#5,928
#5,928
52% of Southern Nevada COVID-19 Deaths Were Fully Vaccinated? That's What This Data Says

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Despite the media’s 24 hour-a-day, 7 day-a-week marathon in attempting to convince Americans of the safety and effectiveness of the COVID-19 vaccines, constant reports of breakthrough cases have gone a long way to undermining that effort. US Health Officials have been adamant that the effectiveness of the vaccines remains high, even though the CDC does not collect data for breakthrough cases, eliminating the possibility for national health officials from even weighing in on the matter. In the UK, at least 40% of new COVID hospitalizations have been of vaccinated people, and many jurisdictions make no distinction anymore between vaccinated and unvaccinated people when it comes to COVID-19 mandates.

In a few states, they do gather breakthrough case data, but oftentimes it is lacking in data or format to which it can be compared. For instance, some states count breakthrough cases, but not hospitalizations or deaths, which makes it hard to determine the number of vaccinated patients that are being treated for, or potentially dying from, COVID-19. This morning, in reviewing data out Southern Nevada, I came across data that I could actually compare that told a story that doesn’t line up with the “98% of deaths and hospitalizations are unvaccinated” narrative.

52% of Southern Nevada COVID-19 Deaths Were Fully Vaccinated? That's What This Data Says
 
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#5,929
#5,929
kiddiedoc said:
6% of 40ish people fit enough to fly are not going to hospitalized, that's for sure.
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And that assumes that 100% of them catch COVID too, which isn't going to happen.

A bit of background. Spouse works for consulting firm that helps businesses receive incentives from gov't related to COVID. Some other companies have batted the COVID insurance surcharge around. In every case, the numbers absolutely support a separate tier for non-vaccinated employees. You see 3 choices (and none of them are perfect)

A. No surcharge which either means the company or vaccinated employees will have to pay more in premiums. Do you risk ticking off the vaccinated employees?

B. A reasonable surcharge based on the actual results. While this is the "fairest policy", do you run the risk of ticking off current and potential employees in a tight labor market for $15-20 a week.

C. A full surcharge plus an attempt to force vaccination (i.e, the Delta idea).
 
#5,931
#5,931
SlingBlayde said:
Some bedtime reading…
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1009243/Technical_Briefing_20.pdf
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In the NHS Test and Trace (NHSTT) case data, the mean and median lowest Ct values for all cases with Delta, where Ct data are available, since the 14 June 2021 are similar, with a median of 17.8 for unvaccinated and 18.0 for those with 2 vaccine doses (Figure 12). This means that whilst vaccination may reduce an individual’s overall risk of becoming infected, once they are infected there is limited difference in viral load (and Ct values) between those who are vaccinated and unvaccinated. Given they have similar Ct values, this suggests limited difference in infectiousness.
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#5,932
#5,932
SpaceCoastVol said:
There's only one other union besides the pilots, and they are a small group. It just so happens that the MEC is meeting this week, and my rep told me that it would be discussed in the afternoon session.
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Will be calling our reps and Chief Pilots when I get off this trip. Natural immunity should be a consideration with all the data coming out on it. As long as a non-vaccinated, prior Covid infection individual has natural antibodies, that should suffice for the company. I’ll spend the $25/month to provide an antibody test to them. But wokED loves optics, not science.
 
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#5,934
#5,934
BigOrangeMojo said:
Delta states the average hospitalization cost is 40k for COVID. So is 2,400 too much in surcharges?

That assumes that all unvaccinated employees catch COVID and 6% of them end up in the hospital. Seems high for a company where the average age of employment is around 40.

I have no issue with Delta charging a reasonable risk premium if its supported by the numbers. Based on the numbers Delta provided, $200 isn't supported.
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Health insurance based on risk, history, and pre-existing conditions……what a great idea.
 
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#5,940
#5,940
C-south said:
I know BCBS charged an extra fee for smokers but I’ve never heard of an actual company mandate such a thing. It was even on the “honor system” Does delta operate their own health insurance company? Next thing you know companies will be able to discriminate against minorities, trannies, atheists, etc.
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Lol. You make a good point. A guy wanting to become a girl will get their Delta insurance to pay for getting their "instrument" removed that I'm sure costs way more than Deltas covid hospital stay numbers.
 
#5,941
#5,941
K-town Vol Fan said:
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"Look at this 1 cherrypicked example facility to justify my irrational fear!"

What about Nevada? Like...the state? See their stats from yesterday's post here? Or that entire county in Mass?

Or the entire United Kingdoms stats from yesterday's post ITT???

They all say the vax is a waste of time and an unnecessary risk.

You scared sheep can ride this thread til Jesus returns...the truth is what it was the day this thread began:

If you are 65 plus and/or have comorbidities...probably should get a vaxx and maybe have increased immune response WHEN and IF you are infected.

If you do not meet those conditions there is no logical...medical...or scientific reason to take a shot thats relatively untested and MORE importantly completely unnecessary. Knock yourself out though.

HOWEVER....if you are trying to force other people to take the shot through coercion, DISHONESTY, fear mongering, mandates policies or legislation....YOU are a piece of sheit. Period. Stop it.

Act like an American.

Mind your own business and find something better to do.
 
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#5,942
#5,942
Orangeslice13 said:
You’re insane if you think it won’t be a factor.
If there’s one bed available and they have to decide between a vaccinated patient and an unvaccinated patient it will go to the vaccinated every time.
And nobody will know anything about it.
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That's why I said should. I have seen the othering for exactly what it is.
 
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#5,943
#5,943
BigOrangeMojo said:
Delta states the average hospitalization cost is 40k for COVID. So is 2,400 too much in surcharges?

That assumes that all unvaccinated employees catch COVID and 6% of them end up in the hospital. Seems high for a company where the average age of employment is around 40.

I have no issue with Delta charging a reasonable risk premium if its supported by the numbers. Based on the numbers Delta provided, $200 isn't supported.
Click to expand...
Also a vaccinated stay at the hospital isnt going to cost less than an unvaxxed stay at the hospital.
 
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#5,944
#5,944
So St. Maarten opened back up on July 1st to visitors that were completely vaccinated. You can't go there unless you had the shots. On July 1st they had 0 cases. They have spiked since then allowing only vaccinated on the island.

The state department and CDC just issued a level 4 warning on traveling there. Anyone care to explain? Don't give me the "It makes it less severe." How is these experimental shots going to get us past covid when they can't stop covid?
Screenshot_20210826-073359_Chrome.jpg
 
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#5,946
#5,946
Orange_Vol1321 said:
So St. Maarten opened back up on July 1st to visitors that were completely vaccinated. You can't go there unless you had the shots. On July 1st they had 0 cases. They have spiked since then allowing only vaccinated on the island.

The state department and CDC just issued a level 4 warning on traveling there. Anyone care to explain? Don't give me the "It makes it less severe." How is these experimental shots going to get us past covid when they can't stop covid?
View attachment 389473
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Come on. You can’t post an ugly trend line but cut off the Y-axis that shows the scale. The graph looks ominous, but the 7 day average is only 30. I don’t think the numbers are high enough to really take much away. That’s basically just 1 or 2 breakthrough infections making it onto the island and infecting a few people.
 
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#5,947
#5,947
Orange_Vol1321 said:
So St. Maarten opened back up on July 1st to visitors that were completely vaccinated. You can't go there unless you had the shots. On July 1st they had 0 cases. They have spiked since then allowing only vaccinated on the island.

The state department and CDC just issued a level 4 warning on traveling there. Anyone care to explain? Don't give me the "It makes it less severe." How is these experimental shots going to get us past covid when they can't stop covid?
View attachment 389473
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Based on that snippet it looks like their spike is 3 people? That could be one family of breakthru. I wouldnt read to much into that
 
#5,949
#5,949
GAVol said:
Come on. You can’t post an ugly trend line but cut off the Y-axis that shows the scale. The graph looks ominous, but the 7 day average is only 30. I don’t think the numbers are high enough to really take much away. That’s basically just 1 or 2 breakthrough infections making it onto the island and infecting a few people.
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A decent % of the 30 could be tourists.
 
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