Vaccine or not?

#9,301
#9,301
SpaceCoastVol said:
Which ones are stupid? But first, can you point me to the studies of long term effects? If you can, I'll shut up about this.
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Start with the Co-01-01 research.
I don’t have links. I had paper copies from TRWs Drs at some point. After football I might still be able to locate them for you.

you should in no way “Shut up” about anything. That would make for very boring message boarding
 
#9,302
#9,302
VolinWayne said:
I haven't heard a lot about Sweden lately. Hmm


Sweden now ranks 40th. Eleven months later, they went from 12th to 40th. Peru, Hungary, the Czech Republic, Brazil, Argentina, Colombia, Paraguay, Belgium, Italy, Mexico, Croatia, the United Kingdom, the United States, Poland, Chile, Spain, Romania, Uruguay, Portugal, France, South Africa all rank ahead of Sweden. Nearly every one of them has tried masks and lockdowns and to this point it’s resulted in a “net failure” in terms of “death and suffering” compared to Sweden.


Why Does No One Ever Talk About Sweden Anymore?
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Sweden? No one really says anything about Africa, either. Normally, we would have been/should have been inundated with stories of Africans dying at record rates like we heard about in India for a while.

I wonder why it so quiet on the continent? What policies or treatment(s) could they be using that is so different?
 
#9,305
#9,305
TNJOKER said:
I found a study from the American Journal for Therapeutics in support of ivermectin.

Several studies have indicated the drug for use as a therapeutic has seen the drug reduce as much as 75% of deaths during the trials... Contradicting what the NIH has been stating.

Ivermectin for Prevention and Treatment of COVID-19 Infection: A Systematic Review, Meta-analysis, and Trial Sequential Analysis to Inform Clinical Guidelines
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There are many problems with this meta-analysis. One of the biggest is that the authors cite multiple studies that either have been retracted due to made up data (one is elgazar which accounts for a huge portion of mortality analysis) or the data is highly suspicious if not proven of fraud ( like the Iranian study Niaee). In fact every study that has been cited in that meta-analysis that showed mortality benefit has either been retracted or there have been calls for it to be retracted or hasn’t been able to be accepted in any respectful journal due to dubious methods. Another problem is it tries to lump studies together that are not measuring the same thing like comparing ivermectin to other drugs or to placebo. You shouldn’t conduct meta-analysis this way. It also doesn’t include some recent randomized trials that showed no benefit like the together trial along with some others.
Also in order to get any antiviral effect you would have to give doses many fold higher than what we give currently. This has been brought up by many scientist and one of the reasons Merck has not supported treatment.
 
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#9,307
#9,307
lostsheep said:
Just pointing out how stupid it is for a general practitioner to act like he knows more than doctors that actually spend each day researching such things. That’s wtf I’m talking about. Comprehend that, chief?
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So a doctor that actually has boots on the ground and real time data is less credible than a scientist in a controlled lab environment?
 
#9,309
#9,309
ENGRVOL said:
There are many problems with this meta-analysis. One of the biggest is that the authors cite multiple studies that either have been retracted due to made up data (one is elgazar which accounts for a huge portion of mortality analysis) or the data is highly suspicious if not proven of fraud ( like the Iranian study Niaee). In fact every study that has been cited in that meta-analysis that showed mortality benefit has either been retracted or there have been calls for it to be retracted or hasn’t been able to be accepted in any respectful journal due to dubious methods. Another problem is it tries to lump studies together that are not measuring the same thing like comparing ivermectin to other drugs or to placebo. You shouldn’t conduct meta-analysis this way. It also doesn’t include some recent randomized trials that showed no benefit like the together trial along with some others.
Also in order to get any antiviral effect you would have to give doses many fold higher than what we give currently. This has been brought up by many scientist and one of the reasons Merck has not supported treatment.
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Regardless.. Although it's not technically a study, the biggest success story for the use of ivermectin is in India.

India is basically a 3rd world country in most aspects. However, the fact that the scientists, doctor's, etc came together to find a solution for this virus speaks volumes to the way the medical practices of that of first world countries.

They have basically defeated COVID with a cheap and cost effective drug compared to that of an experimental vaccine.
 
#9,310
#9,310
TNJOKER said:
Regardless.. Although it's not technically a study, the biggest success story for the use of ivermectin is in India.

India is basically a 3rd world country in most aspects. However, the fact that the scientists, doctor's, etc came together to find a solution for this virus speaks volumes to the way the medical practices of that of first world countries.

They have basically defeated COVID with a cheap and cost effective drug compared to that of an experimental vaccine.
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Africa...

Latest Coronavirus - Yikes | Page 4236 | VolNation.com
 
#9,311
#9,311
TNJOKER said:
Regardless.. Although it's not technically a study, the biggest success story for the use of ivermectin is in India.

India is basically a 3rd world country in most aspects. However, the fact that the scientists, doctor's, etc came together to find a solution for this virus speaks volumes to the way the medical practices of that of first world countries.

They have basically defeated COVID with a cheap and cost effective drug compared to that of an experimental vaccine.
Click to expand...
Well that is not true. No proof that ivermectin has had any benefit in India. Oftentimes ivermectin advocates bring up uttar predesh state/province in India as an example of places in India that did better than those who didn’t use ivermectin. What they fail to mention is that state also went into lockdown around the same time. Further the Ro was already decreasing before ivermectin was put into use.
No data available to suggest a link between India’s reduction of COVID-19 cases and the use of ivermectin
FactCheck: Has the drug ivermectin been proven to be effective against Covid-19?
 
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#9,312
#9,312
ENGRVOL said:
Well that is not true. No proof that ivermectin has had any benefit in India. Oftentimes ivermectin advocates bring up uttar predesh state/province in India as an example of places in India that did better than those who didn’t use ivermectin. What they fail to mention is that state also went into lockdown around the same time. Further the Ro was already decreasing before ivermectin was put into use.
No data available to suggest a link between India’s reduction of COVID-19 cases and the use of ivermectin
FactCheck: Has the drug ivermectin been proven to be effective against Covid-19?
Click to expand...
It's on the internet so the fact check must be true. Lol
 
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#9,314
#9,314
ENGRVOL said:
Well that is not true. No proof that ivermectin has had any benefit in India. Oftentimes ivermectin advocates bring up uttar predesh state/province in India as an example of places in India that did better than those who didn’t use ivermectin. What they fail to mention is that state also went into lockdown around the same time. Further the Ro was already decreasing before ivermectin was put into use.
No data available to suggest a link between India’s reduction of COVID-19 cases and the use of ivermectin
FactCheck: Has the drug ivermectin been proven to be effective against Covid-19?
Click to expand...


Ivermectin Wins in India

India credits Ivermectin for dramatic victory over COVID

India Could Sentence WHO Chief Scientist to Death for Misleading Over Ivermectin and Killing Indians | NextBigFuture.com

Horowitz: The unmistakable ivermectin miracle in the Indian state of Uttar Pradesh


Granted,

The above links are not cbs, nbc, fda, etc..

However,

To say there "is not any proof" is asinine. The fact the courts in India is contemplating on sentencing their chief scientist to death due to "Misleading Indian civilian's" over ivermectin is pretty convincing.

Outside of India, Zimbabwe, Mexico, Guatemala etc patients are using the drug to combat the virus. It seems to be pretty effective.


The impact of ivermectin use in Zimbabwe - Medical Update Online


The internet is full of success stories with ivermectin amongst other drugs. To say ivermectin is not a plausible option to get over the virus mainly because of the FDA "Warns against it" is BS.

Hell they warn against CBD oil or marijuana.
 
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#9,316
#9,316
But we had to be pushed into the jab... lets ignore any other alternative treatments...

Antibody Treatments For COVID Work. Why Aren't They Being Promoted? | ZeroHedge

No reasonable explanation is evident and a significant number of lives may have been lost because of the failure to inform the public properly. And now, with antibody treatments getting more attention, the treatments must be rationed, adding to the tragedy. At least in part, the explanation is a sad one – politics, and politicized media.

The effectiveness of REGEN and other antibody treatments has been known since at least November when the Food and Drug Administration granted emergency authorization for REGEN and another mAb. Earlier tests had found REGEN to be over 70% effective in heading off serious illness and multiple subsequent tests have confirmed it.
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Antibody Treatments For COVID Work. Why Aren't They Being Promoted?
The question almost answers itself... its because they do work.
 
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#9,317
#9,317
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#9,318
#9,318
kiddiedoc said:
I'm telling you: hospitals would be empty if healthcare systems weren't so slow to get this going again this summer. It's a damn travesty.
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I felt like Florida was ahead of the curve when the set up clinics and treatments for everyone who tested positive. Not sure why more states are not following that plan
 
#9,319
#9,319
Orangeslice13 said:
I felt like Florida was ahead of the curve when the set up clinics and treatments for everyone who tested positive. Not sure why more states are not following that plan
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Were they advised of this being an option? That was the point of the article. The information wasn't passed around sufficiently... or it was suppressed.

You would be willing to give everyone the benefit of doubt and say it was just an unfortunate set of circumstances why this wasn't broadcast more and far sooner.

Me, the stupid conspiracy theorist, can't imagine this was an accident and believe that this was intentionally muzzled to help drive up numbers.
 
#9,320
#9,320
Rasputin_Vol said:
Were they advised of this being an option? That was the point of the article. The information wasn't passed around sufficiently... or it was suppressed.

You would be willing to give everyone the benefit of doubt and say it was just an unfortunate set of circumstances why this wasn't broadcast more and far sooner.

Me, the stupid conspiracy theorist, can't imagine this was an accident and believe that this was intentionally muzzled to help drive up numbers.
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Florida did it.
Everyone else had the opportunity.
it’s really that simple.
 
#9,321
#9,321
TNJOKER said:
Ivermectin Wins in India

India credits Ivermectin for dramatic victory over COVID

India Could Sentence WHO Chief Scientist to Death for Misleading Over Ivermectin and Killing Indians | NextBigFuture.com

Horowitz: The unmistakable ivermectin miracle in the Indian state of Uttar Pradesh


Granted,

The above links are not cbs, nbc, fda, etc..

However,

To say there "is not any proof" is asinine. The fact the courts in India is contemplating on sentencing their chief scientist to death due to "Misleading Indian civilian's" over ivermectin is pretty convincing.

Outside of India, Zimbabwe, Mexico, Guatemala etc patients are using the drug to combat the virus. It seems to be pretty effective.


The impact of ivermectin use in Zimbabwe - Medical Update Online


The internet is full of success stories with ivermectin amongst other drugs. To say ivermectin is not a plausible option to get over the virus mainly because of the FDA "Warns against it" is BS.

Hell they warn against CBD oil or marijuana.
Click to expand...
Hope there is a med like ivermectin that is cheap and is found to help against covid. However there is no pharmacological basis for ivermectin to work against covid or at least treat humans as an antiviral.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13102818.2020.1775118
Development of a Minimal Physiologically-Based Pharmacokinetic Model to Simulate Lung Exposure in Humans Following Oral Administration of Ivermectin for COVID-19 Drug Repurposing - ScienceDirect
https://ascpt.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cpt.1889

Studies cited by ivermectin advocates about antiviral effect in-vitro or in the lab fail to mention that it requires concentrations significantly higher in the human body than what is possible for standard ivermectin dosing. Reports of mass administration of ivermectin in places like India, Mexico, and Peru fail to mention how many doses were administered at what time and to how many. None of those articles go into that detail. Further there are many confounding variables going on simultaneously not taken into account.

We now have several randomized controlled double blinded trials including the recent Together Trial that showed no benefit with ivermectin and what seems to be monthly retractions of pro-ivermectin studies around the world due to fraud.
Don’t like how the fda further polarized this issue but wish these advocates for ivermectin at least admit that evidence that the drug works is at best weak and observational.
 
#9,324
#9,324
The Indian state of Kerala has 3% of India's population, and 67% of its inhabitants have at least one vaccination. One would expect Kerala's COVID cases to be so low as to be invisible in a chart of India's very low overall cases. Yet this state of just 33 million people accounted for 65% of all of India's cases on Thursday, and even more in recent weeks. It has essentially been the only state experiencing a surge in recent months. It also happens to be the Indian state that has rejected ivermectin.

Horowitz: Heavily vaccinated state accounts for 65% of India’s COVID cases after rejecting ivermectin
 
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