Vaccine or not?

[FLVOL69]

We are a long, long way from there. These people have too many levers of power and control. It would take a complete dismantling of the system and crash for us to even start having those discussions.

As of now, they are in complete control of everything.

Are you familiar with the process of devolution?

 

[evillawyer]

Tldr summary:

"Hey, murder is bad. We can all agree on that. But we shouldn't mandate not murdering people. That's a bridge too far."

 

[DynaLo]

Get vaxxed and boosted, you filthy animals.

"Neutralization of ancestral virus was much higher in infected and vaccinated versus vaccinated only participants but both groups showed a 22-fold escape from vaccine elicited neutralization by the Omicron variant. However, in the previously infected and vaccinated group, the level of residual neutralization of Omicron was similar to the level of neutralization of ancestral virus observed in the vaccination only group. These data support the notion that, provided high neutralization capacity is elicited by vaccination/boosting approaches, reasonable effectiveness against Omicron may be maintained."

Omicron extensively but incompletely escapes Pfizer BNT162b2 neutralization

No thanks, somebody else is more than welcome to have my doses.

 

[Septic]

I'm glad you're willing to accept that choice.

I'd find a new job, then sue - since quid pro quo sexual harassment is you know, illegal.

Did you really think that was a good example, finding the most absurd scenario and thinking it was a winner? Perhaps you could find an example that doesn't violate the eeoc and circle back around.

In either case, it's a choice - but at least you recognized that (kind of).

 

[OrangeTsar]

About that „vaccine“……….
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2021/12/24/uss-milwaukee-covid-outbreak/

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Are you familiar with the process of devolution?

I'm familiar with the term.

I would say that they have kept this thing rolling far longer than I had expected and right now they are very desperate it seems to get over to the next Ponzi scheme before this system collapses.

I guess my pessimism comes in thinking that the population is so dumb right now that we would let the same people that crashed and burned be in charge of rebuilding the new systems.

 

[Septic]

So we should agree I intentionally used a source that you cannot proclaim has anti vaccine bias?

You mean an organization that is tasked with studying, controlling and preventing disease would be anti anti-vaccine? That's shocking.

Does it bother you that you are unable to find anything from CNN or MSNBC about the number of deaths from the vaccine? Shouldn’t we be having open and honest conversations about this?

I've not limited your search for the claim of 20k dead directly due to the vaccine to MSNBC or CNN. I'd ask that you relegate your report to something not found on a fringe website, twitter post or facebook meme however.

On top of the number the cdc gives, VAERS states that their data is typically underreported, not over

So you made up the number?

 

[FLVOL69]

I'm familiar with the term.

I would say that they have kept this thing rolling far longer than I had expected and right now they are very desperate it seems to get over to the next Ponzi scheme before this system collapses.

I guess my pessimism comes in thinking that the population is so dumb right now that we would let the same people that crashed and burned be in charge of rebuilding the new systems.

Do you have an email address you don't mind posting?

 

[Zues1]

I'd find a new job, then sue - since quid pro quo sexual harassment is you know, illegal.

Did you really think that was a good example, finding the most absurd scenario and thinking it was a winner? Perhaps you could find an example that doesn't violate the eeoc and circle back around.

In either case, it's a choice - but at least you recognized that (kind of).

Yes, both are situations " some" would choose not to have forced upon them.
Then there are people who just bend at the knee and accept.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Do you have an email address you don't mind posting?

I don't, but hold on... might be a while.

 

[Vol8188]

You mean an organization that is tasked with studying, controlling and preventing disease would be anti anti-vaccine? That's shocking.


I've not limited your search for the claim of 20k dead directly due to the vaccine to MSNBC or CNN. I'd ask that you relegate your report to something not found on a fringe website, twitter post or facebook meme however.


So you made up the number?

No. The number was not made up. Just not by a computer to pull the most recent vaers data and only hard right sources are reporting that specific number. Heres some examples. But do you not have a problem with the fact that no mainstream news agency is reporting either the 10k number from the cdc or roughly 20k number from other sites?

VAERS Update: "Official" COVID Vaccine-Related Deaths Over 18,000* [Update] - Granite Grok

20,000+ deaths reported to VAERS following COVID vaccines - LifeSite

 

[MAD]

The hospitals are getting a lot of COVID patients, and that slows the whole thing down. How do people not see that?
The refrain of that crowd is "it's just a flu"....now it's becoming "it's just a cold".
For a lot of people it is, but they dont think that way. It's utterly black and white. Stupid people think in black and white.

UM Upper Chesapeake Health declares hospital disaster in Harford County as COVID cases hit new peak

The numbers hit their highest levels this week since the start of the pandemic, with at least three quarters of the infected patients unvaccinated.

 

[whodeycin85]

The hospitals are getting a lot of COVID patients, and that slows the whole thing down. How do people not see that?
The refrain of that crowd is "it's just a flu"....now it's becoming "it's just a cold".
For a lot of people it is, but they dont think that way. It's utterly black and white. Stupid people think in black and white.

UM Upper Chesapeake Health declares hospital disaster in Harford County as COVID cases hit new peak

The numbers hit their highest levels this week since the start of the pandemic, with at least three quarters of the infected patients unvaccinated.

Do you intentionally ignore that these hospitals are understaffed by a significant amount?? So much so they asked local government to stop mandates because of losses of employees.... ive seen a car crash slow down and backup a hospital because they were not staffed...

 

[Septic]

Yes, both are situations " some" would choose not to have forced upon them.
Then there are people who just bend at the knee and accept.

Well, one is illegal. So not only would there be civil remedy for that "choice" in your 'example', it's still no less of a choice.

You attempted to strawman but unwittingly made the point that what you keep foisting as a "requirement" is, in fact - a "choice."

The appeal to emotion that "people need work to feed their family's" is unconvincing. Tough choices are still choices.

Or are you advocating that employment should be a right and that employers should be able to make decisions on who they want to hire or retain?

 

[kiddiedoc]

The hospitals are getting a lot of COVID patients, and that slows the whole thing down. How do people not see that?
The refrain of that crowd is "it's just a flu"....now it's becoming "it's just a cold".
For a lot of people it is, but they dont think that way. It's utterly black and white. Stupid people think in black and white.

UM Upper Chesapeake Health declares hospital disaster in Harford County as COVID cases hit new peak

The numbers hit their highest levels this week since the start of the pandemic, with at least three quarters of the infected patients unvaccinated.

In the past month, the number of COVID-19 positive patients has jumped 733% at the Bel Air Hospital and 458% at that hospital and UM Harford Memorial Hospital in Havre de Grace. The system declined to disclose the actual number of cases, saying those numbers shift from hour to hour.

When raw numbers are excluded, you should always question percentages. If they went from 5 to 35 patients, who cares? Most areas of the country are dealing with a plethora of respiratory infections, including flu, which could account for a huge percentage of hospitalizations.

 

[Septic]

No. The number was not made up. Just not by a computer to pull the most recent vaers data and only hard right sources are reporting that specific number. Heres some examples. But do you not have a problem with the fact that no mainstream news agency is reporting either the 10k number from the cdc or roughly 20k number from other sites?

VAERS Update: "Official" COVID Vaccine-Related Deaths Over 18,000* [Update] - Granite Grok

20,000+ deaths reported to VAERS following COVID vaccines - LifeSite

So in one post you assert that VAERS data is unreliable and then in another you link to a fringe website that links to another website that reports VAERS covid vaccine deaths but doesn't actually link to VAERS.





ok, that's convincing.

You asked, we answered: Does VAERS list deaths caused by COVID-19 vaccines?

Antivaccine activists use a government database on side effects to scare the public

 

[Vol8188]

So in one post you assert that VAERS data is unreliable and then in another you link to a fringe website that links to another website that reports VAERS covid vaccine deaths but doesn't actually link to VAERS.

View attachment 423572



ok, that's convincing.

You asked, we answered: Does VAERS list deaths caused by COVID-19 vaccines?

Antivaccine activists use a government database on side effects to scare the public

When did I claim it’s unreliable? I said it’s underreported. Meaning there’s likely even more dead, according to VAERS

I’m not by my laptop right now to pull the data myself but feel free to do it and post it if you are. The site doesn’t work well from my phone

 

[FLVOL69]

When did I claim it’s unreliable? I said it’s underreported. Meaning there’s likely even more dead, according to VAERS

I’m not by my laptop right now to pull the data myself but feel free to do it and post it if you are. The site doesn’t work well from my phone

Don't hold your breath

 

[Vol8188]

So in one post you assert that VAERS data is unreliable and then in another you link to a fringe website that links to another website that reports VAERS covid vaccine deaths but doesn't actually link to VAERS.

View attachment 423572



ok, that's convincing.

You asked, we answered: Does VAERS list deaths caused by COVID-19 vaccines?

Antivaccine activists use a government database on side effects to scare the public

Your own first link said 14k and was in early novemeber. So you think my claim of 18k by today is absurd? Or can we agree roughly 20k deaths have been reported?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Do you have an email address you don't mind posting?

rasputin_vol-VN@yahoo.com

 

[Septic]

When did I claim it’s unreliable? I said it’s underreported. Meaning there’s likely even more dead, according to VAERS

I’m not by my laptop right now to pull the data myself but feel free to do it and post it if you are. The site doesn’t work well from my phone

If it's underreported, it's unreliable.

In either case, the links you left as proof don't help shore up your claim of 20k dead by vaccines. If anything they undermine it.

 

[Septic]

Your own first link said 14k and was in early novemeber. So you think my claim of 18k by today is absurd? Or can we agree roughly 20k deaths have been reported?

LOL, at least pretend to be intellectually honest in our conversation. At some point 100% of deaths will occur after the Covid vax for those who are vaccinated. Be sure to read the last sentence...

"As of Nov. 2, people have reported to VAERS 14,506 deaths that occurred sometime after COVID-19 vaccination. Doctors at the CDC review each reported death, looking at death certificates, autopsy and medical records. Additional CDC vaccine safety monitoring systems such as the National Healthcare Safety Network, Vaccine Safety Datalink, Clinical Immununization Safety Assessment Project and FDA's vaccine safety reporting systems are then used to provide more rigorous scientific investigation of potential adverse events. The true number of deaths currently attributed to COVID-19 vaccines in detailed scientific investigation is quite small. "

 

[Vol8188]

If it's underreported, it's unreliable.

In either case, the links you left as proof don't help shore up your claim of 20k dead by vaccines. If anything they undermine it.

If it’s underreported that only means the vaccine is worse than you’re claiming. So the data can be reasonably used to say what I’m attempting to claim. That there are serious concerns people should weigh.

I said roughly 20k and then clarified 18k was the number I had seen. I can’t back that up right now because I’m not near my laptop. But your own source said 14k in early November.

Was your source invalid? Do you believe deaths stopped in November? Or did you think it’s likely 18k by now?

 

[Septic]

If it’s underreported that only means the vaccine is worse than you’re claiming. So the data can be reasonably used to say what I’m attempting to claim. That there are serious concerns people should weigh.

I said roughly 20k and then clarified 18k was the number I had seen. I can’t back that up right now because I’m not near my laptop. But your own source said 14k in early November.

Was your source invalid? Do you believe deaths stopped in November? Or did you think it’s likely 18k by now?

I won't hammer you on this one, read my response and feel free to edit this post. You're going to want it back.

 

[Vol8188]

LOL, at least pretend to be intellectually honest in our conversation. At some point 100% of deaths will occur after the Covid vax for those who are vaccinated. Be sure to read the last sentence...

"As of Nov. 2, people have reported to VAERS 14,506 deaths that occurred sometime after COVID-19 vaccination. Doctors at the CDC review each reported death, looking at death certificates, autopsy and medical records. Additional CDC vaccine safety monitoring systems such as the National Healthcare Safety Network, Vaccine Safety Datalink, Clinical Immununization Safety Assessment Project and FDA's vaccine safety reporting systems are then used to provide more rigorous scientific investigation of potential adverse events. The true number of deaths currently attributed to COVID-19 vaccines in detailed scientific investigation is quite small. "

We can get to all of that but not until you’re honest with the first part. Do we agree 18k is likely the number reported given your own source claims 14k by early November? So nearly 2 months later, is it likely around 18k as I stated?

If you continue to pretend I’m lying about that, it’s hard to move on to the question of how many reported were primarily caused by the vaccine