Vaccine or not?

[MAD]

1. Do we agree around 18k deaths have been reported to VAERS?

2. Your last sentence about the amended data not being released should concern you.

3. At no point have I claimed every reported death was 100% due to Covid. But VAERS does admit that historically data is more likely to be underreported rather than over through their system

You said…
‘my original claim that nearly 20k reported deaths have occurred from the Covid vaccines?’
End of story.

 

[Vol8188]

You said…
‘my original claim that nearly 20k reported deaths have occurred from the Covid vaccines?’
End of story.

Yes. What about that is false?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

VAERS data available to the public include only the initial report data to VAERS. Updated data which contains data from medical records and corrections reported during follow up are used by the government for analysis. However, for numerous reasons including data consistency, these amended data are not available to the public.

You just made the case for undercounting in VAERS.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Taking my nephew swimming. Will return later tonight to the discussion and should have my laptop at that time

Make sure he masks up.

 

[Orangeslice13]

I'm not turning a blind eye to a "side". There are certainly those that are overboard. But it is exceptionally bizarre that you view people that are deliberately not taking a specific action, that are trying to justify themselves when confronted with very real attacks on their livelihood, etc., as an "extreme".

This has got to be one of the first times in history that people are labeled extreme, or extremists, for not doing something. Calling a side that isn't trying to penalize or attack another side "extreme" is what's idiotic, I'm sorry.

You reading into isn’t my issue it’s yours.
A business has the right to do whatever they feel is best for their business. You don’t like it? Too bad.
The government mandates are bull **** and a completely different issue. This isn’t as 2 sided as you’re trying to make it out to be. There are many opinions between the two extremes, but on here the dipshitery from each side are by far the most vocal

 

[DynaLo]

Antivaxers: Ignore The Sick, Love Only Thyself!

From the CDC: To ensure adequate time for an immune response to occur, a person is considered fully vaccinated 2 weeks after completion of a two-dose mRNA series or one dose of Janssen vaccine.

Anyone who has only received 1 dose of a 2 dose shot series is NOT considered fully vaxxed by the CDC requirements.
Does anyone know how many of this demographic are being classified as unvaxxed in these hospital admissions reports?

 

[MAD]

Yes. What about that is false?

Yes, you are right

 

[ButchPlz]

You reading into isn’t my issue it’s yours.
A business has the right to do whatever they feel is best for their business. You don’t like it? Too bad.
The government mandates are bull **** and a completely different issue. This isn’t as 2 sided as you’re trying to make it out to be. There are many opinions between the two extremes, but on here the dipshitery from each side are by far the most vocal

Ah, another one that's undoubtedly all good with company scrip, absolving businesses of permanent injury to their employees, total control of employ life, and on and on. After all, they could just go somewhere else, right? All these tech monopolies are just doing business, leave them alone! Everything is better off if the corporation sets the rules, as long as they aren't big bad government! It's not like they all end up looking the exact same at the end of the day.

The smallest minority is the individual. They ought to be protected- especially when they're doing something like choosing not to do things damaging to themselves. The one who used the word "extreme" was you. It's not "extreme" to resist people forcing others to do something. Insane.

 

[Vol8188]

Yes, you are right

View attachment 423586

You seem to be making a fool of yourself by trying to argue something I’m not claiming. Roughly 20k reported deaths. That’s my claim.

You’re trying to argue against that by stating not every reported death was actually due to the vaccine. Okay? That’s a different thing. We can discuss that but only if you’re first willing to admit I’m correct. If you pretend I’m a fool, you’re really just embarrassing yourself

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

You reading into isn’t my issue it’s yours.
A business has the right to do whatever they feel is best for their business. You don’t like it? Too bad.
The government mandates are bull **** and a completely different issue. This isn’t as 2 sided as you’re trying to make it out to be. There are many opinions between the two extremes, but on here the dipshitery from each side are by far the most vocal

Do you believe bigger businesses would be requiring these injections sans the threats from the .gov?

 

[ButchPlz]

Do you believe bigger businesses would be requiring these injections sans the threats from the .gov?

The largest businesses and the government are nearly indistinguishable. One look at the leadership, boards, etc. clears the picture greatly. It wouldn't matter if they were "mandated" or not, in my opinion- the "free" market is dying, dying, dying as corporations and government continue to breed with each other.

 

[AthensVol2007]

Tldr summary:

"Hey, murder is bad. We can all agree on that. But we shouldn't mandate not murdering people. That's a bridge too far."

Good lord you have to be a terrible attorney A) you’re always on here, so you can’t give much effort to your clients interest and B) with the logic displayed above, I can’t imagine the quality of your work

 

[FLVOL69]

Good lord you have to be a terrible attorney A) you’re always on here, so you can’t give much effort to your clients interest and B) with the logic displayed above, I can’t imagine the quality of your work

The same could be said of the other one

 

[Septic]

Yes. What about that is false?

All of it?

 

[Septic]

You seem to be making a fool of yourself by trying to argue something I’m not claiming. Roughly 20k reported deaths. That’s my claim.

You’re trying to argue against that by stating not every reported death was actually due to the vaccine. Okay? That’s a different thing. We can discuss that but only if you’re first willing to admit I’m correct. If you pretend I’m a fool, you’re really just embarrassing yourself

Due to what?

If you're trying to say there was 20k deaths and it's not due to the vaccine, what point are trying to make?

 

[evillawyer]

Good lord you have to be a terrible attorney A) you’re always on here, so you can’t give much effort to your clients interest and B) with the logic displayed above, I can’t imagine the quality of your work

I was pointing out it's a crappy form of argument. The argument was of the form: (1) Doing X (getting vaxxed) is the right thing to do, but (2) we shouldn't mandate that people do the right thing (getting vaxxed/boosted). That's not a great argument form because you can sub in all sorts of things for X that people will say SHOULD be mandated (things like, paying taxes, caring for your kids, not murdering, etc). This means there's a hidden premise that's being relied upon to draw the conclusion.

 

[AthensVol2007]

Antivaxers: Ignore The Sick, Love Only Thyself!

“Iowa’s short-staffed hospitals have been jammed for months with patients, including people severely sickened by COVID-19.”

“In addition to an increased number of COVID-19 cases and spread of the delta and omicron variants, hospitals across the country are dealing with traumas and experiencing multiple types of illness,”

“This demand is coupled with a reduced number of staff to care for patients. These challenges can strain available resources and contribute to delays in care or other complications for patients.”

“..nearly 82% of people hospitalized in Iowa for COVID-19 were not fully vaccinated”.

Note it doesn’t say unvaccinated. Note it says hospitals are short-staffed. Note the only people who blamed unvaccinated individuals are his daughters, not the medical professionals. Note how you continually make up your own conclusions to fit your narrative.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

They hate you...

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

The largest businesses and the government are nearly indistinguishable. One look at the leadership, boards, etc. clears the picture greatly. It wouldn't matter if they were "mandated" or not, in my opinion- the "free" market is dying, dying, dying as corporations and government continue to breed with each other.

On a certain level, I absolutely agree with you. The differences is that these ridiculous mandates Joe is forcing on everyone is costing money to corporations. If they were/are held up it will result in mass firings of currently... desperately needed employees. My company for example. We are hiring at a pace that is larger/faster than any I have seen in 30 years. If we had to fire all the employees that refuse this ********, we would probably cancel thousands of flights.

But that's the left's goal. Cripple the country.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

The largest businesses and the government are nearly indistinguishable. One look at the leadership, boards, etc. clears the picture greatly. It wouldn't matter if they were "mandated" or not, in my opinion- the "free" market is dying, dying, dying as corporations and government continue to breed with each other.

Fascism or cartelism

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

But that's the left's goal. Cripple the country.

yep

 

[whodeycin85]

Straight from FDA.gov. ....why haven't these "false" claims beem charged??? Why for all the years prior did VAERS be considered amd false reports minimized until the covid vax??? Then suddenly Joe Nobody is suddenly reporting "false" reports..and they are all investigated, and proven true or false


I am hearing about false reports being made to VAERS?

As stated on the VAERS report form, “knowingly filing a false VAERS report with the intent to mislead the Department of Health and Human Services is a violation of Federal law (18 U.S. Code § 1001) punishable by fine and imprisonment.”

 

[ButchPlz]

“Iowa’s short-staffed hospitals have been jammed for months with patients, including people severely sickened by COVID-19.”

“In addition to an increased number of COVID-19 cases and spread of the delta and omicron variants, hospitals across the country are dealing with traumas and experiencing multiple types of illness,”

“This demand is coupled with a reduced number of staff to care for patients. These challenges can strain available resources and contribute to delays in care or other complications for patients.”

“..nearly 82% of people hospitalized in Iowa for COVID-19 were not fully vaccinated”.

Note it doesn’t say unvaccinated. Note it says hospitals are short-staffed. Note the only people who blamed unvaccinated individuals are his daughters, not the medical professionals. Note how you continually make up your own conclusions to fit your narrative.

That "fully vaccinated" thing is propaganda at its purest. Our local system did the same thing when reporting their "numbers". They also made some dubious claims about the age of hospitalized getting younger but elected not to provide trend data for anyone to review on their own.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Ah, another one that's undoubtedly all good with company scrip, absolving businesses of permanent injury to their employees, total control of employ life, and on and on. After all, they could just go somewhere else, right? All these tech monopolies are just doing business, leave them alone! Everything is better off if the corporation sets the rules, as long as they aren't big bad government! It's not like they all end up looking the exact same at the end of the day.

The smallest minority is the individual. They ought to be protected- especially when they're doing something like choosing not to do things damaging to themselves. The one who used the word "extreme" was you. It's not "extreme" to resist people forcing others to do something. Insane.

Go work somewhere else if you don’t like it.
I’m struggling with you wanting to take away a businesses freedom in the name of freedom.
what we need is less government regulation and interference…..not more.
Who would have thought you were the communist “for the people “ guy.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Just got word that 3 family members in California and 2 in Maryland have caught COVID for the first time. It’s strange. They became fully vaccinated, with boosters only recently. Funny how they didn’t get COVID before getting fully vaccinated. Now 3 of those are in the hospital and are very sick. Hey the vaccines are supposed to prevent that right?