Vaccine or not?

#19,026
#19,026
BowlBrother85 said:
You can't talk about this story without someone from the right accusing you of "celebrating another person's death." Posts such as the one above, don't help matters. You appear to be gloating, and that is crass and repugnant.

I want to make it clear right away that I consider this man's death to be a horrible tragedy. He was a devoted public servant, a husband and a father, who no doubt also leaves behind many friends. RIP, Officer Lamay.

I'm not approaching this post from a position of being critical of the departed. Robert Lamay had personal convictions against vaccinations, and he stood by them. Right or wrong, smart or foolish, ... it was his right to remain unvaccinated.

However, this story should be discussed, because Fox News deserves some criticism for how they have handled this. The hosts on Fox News have treated anti-vaxxers such as Robert Lamay like folk heroes for their public defiance of vaccination mandates, but they never do follow up reports when these same people (such as Lamay) contract COVID-19 and die. Lamay's death has still not been mentioned anywhere on Fox News, despite the fact that they had him as a frequent guest on multiple shows just 3 1/2 months ago. This is bad journalism. They haven't told all of the story, that there is to tell regarding Mr. Lamay's stance against COVID vaccines.

Fox News propping up anti-vaxxer, Robert Lamay, as a folk hero (below).

Washington trooper signs out for last time, tells Inslee he can 'kiss my a--'

State trooper explains why he told liberal governor to 'kiss my a--' and quit over vaccine mandate

Robert Lamay's tragic death from COVID-19. RIP (below).

Trooper dies after quitting job over vaccination requirement

Fox News has still not mentioned Robert Lamay's COVID-related death (below).

Fox News under fire for failing to report on trooper’s death from Covid after they aired his anti-vax stance

In addition to not mentioning the death of Robert Lamay, Fox News has also failed to mention their own vaccine mandate. Back in December, Fox Corporation, the owner of Fox News, told employees that those working in New York City would have to show proof they'd had at least one dose of the COVID vaccine by December 27th, which removed a previously held testing option for them.

Fox News requires COVID vaccinations (below).

Fox News drops testing option for office workers and will require vaccination

To say that this reveals a hypocrisy is an understatement.

On the one hand, Fox News hosts rail against vaccination mandates, and applaud the heroes who have taken a stand against them. On the other hand, Fox News hosts have already abided by vaccination mandates in their own lives. They are hypocrites and bad journalists.... all in one.
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You’re conflating private business mandates and a government issued mandate. They’re not the same. A business has the right to run their organization how they see fit and the market will dictate if their decision is the correct one; if they lose employees and can’t fill spots with quality applicants the decision will be reversed or the product will suffer. The government (and an unelected bureaucratic arm at that) put in power by the people have no right to mandate health decisions over those very people, nor do they have any business entering the arena of employee health of private businesses.
 
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#19,028
#19,028
AthensVol2007 said:
You’re conflating private business mandates and a government issued mandate. They’re not the same. A business has the right to run their organization how they see fit and the market will dictate if their decision is the correct one; if they lose employees and can’t fill spots with quality applicants the decision will be reversed or the product will suffer. The government (and an unelected bureaucratic arm at that) put in power by the people have no right to mandate health decisions over those very people, nor do they have any business entering the arena of employee health of private businesses.
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I'm being critical of Fox News hosts on 2 fronts:

1) Fox News hosts propped up an anti-vaxxer as a folk hero (Robert LaMay) for refusing to take a COVID vaccine, but then failed to report his COVID-related death just 3 months later. They didn't finish telling his story, because it no longer served their political agenda. That is bad journalism. A political agenda should never interfere with reporting the conclusion to a story.

2) Fox News has been critical of vaccine mandates across all spectrums, whether issued by private businesses or when issued by state and local governments. They have done this in spite of their own vaccine mandate, which was imposed in December. That fact makes them hypocrites.
 
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#19,029
#19,029
AthensVol2007 said:
You’re conflating private business mandates and a government issued mandate. They’re not the same. A business has the right to run their organization how they see fit and the market will dictate if their decision is the correct one; if they lose employees and can’t fill spots with quality applicants the decision will be reversed or the product will suffer. The government (and an unelected bureaucratic arm at that) put in power by the people have no right to mandate health decisions over those very people, nor do they have any business entering the arena of employee health of private businesses.
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You are wrong on the part which I placed in bold. On the state level, government officials absolutely do have the right to impose vaccine mandates on state employees. Gov. Jay Inslee of Washington, was within his Constitutional power to impose the vaccine mandate which Washington State Trooper Robert LaMay refused to abide by.

Current constitutional issues related to vaccine mandates - National Constitution Center

The Supreme Court precedent was Jacobson v. Massachusetts.

Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11 (1905)
 
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#19,032
#19,032
Rasputin_Vol said:
And the Supreme Court gets it wrong often. Precedent doesn't mean anything.
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That is such an ignorant thing to say. Precedents serve as court decisions which are to be regarded as authority for deciding subsequent cases involving identical or similar facts, or similar legal issues. The precedent set by Jacobson v. Massachusetts has stood for 116 years. To say that it "doesn't mean anything" is ridiculous.
 
#19,033
#19,033
BowlBrother85 said:
That is such an ignorant thing to say. Precedents serve as court decisions which are to be regarded as authority for deciding subsequent cases involving identical or similar facts, or similar legal issues. The precedent set by Jacobson v. Massachusetts has stood for 116 years. To say that it "doesn't mean anything" is ridiculous.
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Dred Scott? Plessy v Ferguson? I could go on. Supreme Court gets it wrong often enough.
 
#19,034
#19,034
Rasputin_Vol said:
Dred Scott? Plessy v Ferguson? I could go on. Supreme Court gets it wrong often enough.
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And new precedents were established, such as Brown v. Board of Education, when those were overturned. To say that precedents don't mean anything, especially one which has stood for more than 100 years, is ignorant. The precedent of Gideon v. Wainwright is dealt with every day in courts throughout the country... because a destitute man in Florida named Clarence Gideon asked a judge to appoint him an attorney and he didn't get one.
 
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#19,035
#19,035
Burhead said:
Got the vaccine and booster (personal choice) and tested positive today. Started having a sore throat Friday morning and a cough developed Saturday. Other than that I feel fine, had some headaches Friday night/Saturday but those went away.
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If you don't mind me asking, what brand vax/booster did you receive?
 
#19,036
#19,036
Vol8188 said:
The chart itself seems to tell the story. No change in death for people 44 or under. Very little change from 45-64; massive change in death rates for those over 85.

You also have to accept that X% of those 85 and up who are unvaccinated and died, did so because they were unable to get vaccinated due to other serious underlying health factors. So it's not nearly as impressive as it sounds.
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What underlying health condition is a contraindication to vaccination?
 
#19,037
#19,037
Orange_Vol1321 said:
But, the Pfizer CEO said these shots don't work with Omicron. So the booster is basically made for Delta. There's no justification for taking it. By the time they make this omicron booster, we will be already on the next variant.

And I get a DR can pull data as we all can. I know a couple of nurses that say the opposite of your doctors data is happening. At this point, data from the government, CDC, NIH etc. really can't be trusted at this point, at least for me, after watching them the last two years.
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Post that data your nurse friends are referring to. I can’t find it.
 
#19,038
#19,038
willidan said:
What underlying health condition is a contraindication to vaccination?
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Other than allergies to the ingredients of the vaccine there’s no hard fast rules and it’s more a matter of clinical judgement. Like any vaccine if you show up with a fever or signs of illness you’ll likely be turned away. In terms of chronic disorders it’s up to their primary care or specialist treating them.

I imagine as time progresses we will get more clear guidelines on which conditions should be avoided.
 
#19,039
#19,039
BowlBrother85 said:
And new precedents were established, such as Brown v. Board of Education, when those were overturned. To say that precedents don't mean anything, especially one which has stood for more than 100 years, is ignorant. The precedent of Gideon v. Wainwright is dealt with every day in courts throughout the country... because a destitute man in Florida named Clarence Gideon asked a judge to appoint him an attorney and he didn't get one.
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Yep. Courts get it wrong.
 
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#19,044
#19,044
MurphyVol said:
Don't really know/care much about the Pfizer, our health Dept has used Moderna from the start. Duke's study says the current Moderna booster (while less effective than against Delta) has tangible Omicron antibodies up to 6 months post shot.
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Natural immunity works fine too. If you're under 65 with no underlying conditions getting the shot isn't justifiable.
 
#19,046
#19,046
BowlBrother85 said:
You are wrong on the part which I placed in bold. On the state level, government officials absolutely do have the right to impose vaccine mandates on state employees. Gov. Jay Inslee of Washington, was within his Constitutional power to impose the vaccine mandate which Washington State Trooper Robert LaMay refused to abide by.

Current constitutional issues related to vaccine mandates - National Constitution Center

The Supreme Court precedent was Jacobson v. Massachusetts.

Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11 (1905)
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STATE employees are not private business employees last I checked.
 
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