Vaccine or not?

[VolinWayne]

I was actually part of Volnation since the earliest days, when we used to know basically everyone and met up in person for games/ events. I'm friends with Freak, and I have a number of other personal friends on the board --- some in healthcare, some not. I enjoy discussing Vol athletics, cooking, fitness, music, movies, cars, grilling, and health- related topics.

From what I have understood, a good number of posters have appreciated having an actual local practicing physician who has cared for around a thousand kids with COVID post throughout the pandemic.

What's fascinating to me is why you seem to care so much about my motivation for being here. It's odd, honestly. If you don't like what I have to say, then just ignore.

Let me know when all your doctor buddies weigh in on the beliefs I have consistently stated for two years (listed above).

What’s really fascinating to me is why a physician would come to a forum full of lay people rather than a forum of other physicians to discuss things that he believes can’t be debated by non-doctors.

I think we can rule out being a good samaritan and having your theories tested based on your responses.

Beat remaining option, in my opinion, is ego/affirmation.

I (and I'm sure many other feel the same) really appreciate the perspective kiddiedoc brings to the forum. Next time you might want to choose a subject other then health to argue with him.

 

[RockyTop85]

From what I have understood, a good number of posters have appreciated having an actual local practicing physician who has cared for around a thousand kids with COVID post throughout the pandemic.

That sounds an awful lot like confirmation.

 

[OHvol40]

I (and I'm sure many other feel the same) really appreciate the perspective kiddiedoc brings to the forum. Next time you might want to choose a subject other then health to argue with him.

I think kiddiedoc does bring a good perspective, and it is appreciated, but like many of us his bias clearly shows. I have debates with other fellow practitioners in the OR on a daily basis, it is amazing the amount of variety that exists amongst people in the same field. That’s healthy, in my view. I enjoy respectful, articulate disagreement most of the time. It allows for contemplation about your own views and positions.

 

[Jxn Vol]

So a 1 in 100 chance of DYING

Yup, go ahead and sign up for that ****

True sign of intelligence asking for a higher risk of death, unless you can't take the vaccine, which I feel sorry for. Have one friend that can't. She got covid and is a "longhauler". Couldn't even walk much for a year, mid 30s. Hate it for her.

A sign of intelligence is not rushing to jab oneself with something from big pharma with no long term safety data.

 

[Jxn Vol]

That sounds an awful lot like confirmation.

I appreciate him being here. I appreciate most folks on here except for the few communists.

 

[ButchPlz]

I (and I'm sure many other feel the same) really appreciate the perspective kiddiedoc brings to the forum. Next time you might want to choose a subject other then health to argue with him.

I appreciate him being here. I appreciate most folks on here except for the few communists.

His insights are certainly more professional than most of the ambulance chasers on this board.

 

[KnoxLandcruiser]

What’s really fascinating to me is why a physician would come to a forum full of lay people rather than a forum of other physicians to discuss things that he believes can’t be debated by non-doctors.

I think we can rule out being a good samaritan and having your theories tested based on your responses.

Beat remaining option, in my opinion, is ego/affirmation.

L O L at your ego comment....your ego is on full display.

 

[VolinWayne]

I think kiddiedoc does bring a good perspective, and it is appreciated, but like many of us his bias clearly shows. I have debates with other fellow practitioners in the OR on a daily basis, it is amazing the amount of variety that exists amongst people in the same field. That’s healthy, in my view. I enjoy respectful, articulate disagreement most of the time. It allows for contemplation about your own views and positions.

I agree with you 100% in regards to debates being healthy. Healthy debates are great! There is no person on earth who is correct 100% of the time. What is never healthy is when one side of the debate gets silenced and sensored. I think thats probably why so many of us have become so vocal is because our opinions are being silenced and scensored on so many social media platforms.

 

[kiddiedoc]

That sounds an awful lot like confirmation.

Get back to me with which of my positions all your prominent doctor friends disagree with. I have been talking to a few friends while watching basketball, and I sent them the list. One is a pediatric subspecialty surgeon, one a fellow local pediatrician, and one is one of the most acclaimed trauma surgeons in the country. All agreed with every point. Guess they are nutso, too. The latter handled one of the worst tragedies we've seen in the last 20 years and travels the nation giving seminars on mass casualty events.

 

[RockyTop85]

Get back to me with which of my positions all your prominent doctor friends disagree with. I have been talking to a few friends while watching basketball, and I sent them the list. One is a pediatric subspecialty surgeon, one a fellow local pediatrician, and one is one of the most acclaimed trauma surgeons in the country. All agreed with every point. Guess they are nutso, too. The latter handled one of the worst tragedies we've seen in the last 20 years and travels the nation giving seminars on mass casualty events.

What’d they say about your “the vaccines are illegal” theory?

 

[kiddiedoc]

What’d they say about your “the vaccines are illegal” theory?

WTF are you talking about? And, I'm the crazy person?

It is common knowledge among medical professionals that the available shots in the U.S. are all legal, Emergency Use Authorized therapeutics.

 

[kiddiedoc]

I mean most of the doctors I know disagree with you on just about everything you post on here.

You made the claim. Run the list or discredit yourself.

 

[RockyTop85]

WTF are you talking about? And, I'm the crazy person?

It is common knowledge among medical professionals that the available shots in the U.S. are all legal, Emergency Use Authorized therapeutics.

Then why the are you still arguing with me? I said this in my second or third post:

There’s some workaround buried or they’ve extended EUA for the Pfizer BioNTech vaccine

The idea that every pharmacy and pharmacy corporation in America is woefully incompetent or part of a massive cover up is not believable. It’s far more believable that you, not knowing what the CFR is, have overlooked some feature of the law that makes the actual contents of the vial and the purpose/cohort to which it is administered more significant than the branding.

Which part of that is causing your malfunction?

 

[RockyTop85]

You made the claim. Run the list or discredit yourself.

A) It is false [that there would be less cases of Covid-19 if everyone were vaccinated.]
B) The risk of hospitalization and death would be reduced for only the old and those with multiple co-morbidities [as a result of complete vaccination of those eligible.]
C) Healthy, younger people don't need the jab. D) The jab put unneeded risk on healthy, younger people.
E) “The jab” serves zero purpose for healthy younger people.
F) These "vaccines" should be treated just like the flu shot and when sanity once again reigns supreme in our medical community the COVID shot will only be recommended for those that are already knocking on deaths door.
G) Only a total moron would recommend this therapeutic to a child, teen, or healthy young adult.

This list? I’ve already done it, months ago. No need to repeat it.

As for the list, I would generally agree with all of those statements.

 

[VolinWayne]

What’d they say about your “the vaccines are illegal” theory?

Give it up man. You are getting owned by kiddiedoc. You are also making yourself look quite foolish in the process.

 

[willidan]

Get back to me with which of my positions all your prominent doctor friends disagree with. I have been talking to a few friends while watching basketball, and I sent them the list. One is a pediatric subspecialty surgeon, one a fellow local pediatrician, and one is one of the most acclaimed trauma surgeons in the country. All agreed with every point. Guess they are nutso, too. The latter handled one of the worst tragedies we've seen in the last 20 years and travels the nation giving seminars on mass casualty events.

Yes they are one that fringe of the medical community. Most, not all, physicians follow data not conspiracy or one off cases. Got physician friends all across the country who publish on this stuff. They would disagree with you.

 

[willidan]

A few thoughts you can run by your doctor buddies:

The virus is likely engineered.

“Likely”…? Show your reliable source.

Children are not at serious risk from CV19.

We’ve discussed this. A couple pages back, I posted a huge study showing the risk of covid complications was much higher than risks associated with vaccination for all age groups. I’ve also told personal stories of kids dying i’ve cared for. You claimed I should be ashamed of stating as such. You’re wrong for saying Covid is not a serious risk for children coming from a person who has cared for children with covid.

School, sports, and extra-curricular activities should not have been taken from children.

Opinion? Could it have saved lives?

Cloth masks are not an effective tool to stop the spread of respiratory viruses.

Not all masks used are cloth. What is your hard data for against cloth masks? What is the data for other types of masks?

Herd immunity is likely the most important factor towards ending the pandemic.

Vaccination would help get us there. Spreading vaccine misinformation has prevented us from getting there.

Shutdowns caused a myriad of unintended damage -- financial, physical, and mental.

So does getting covid, long term symptoms related to infection, having family members die from covid.

mRNA shots are not likely to confer lasting immunity, especially if variants emerge.

Neither is infection if trying to prevent reinfection with variants. The goal would be to get enough folks vaccinated to prevent emergence of variants.

mRNA shots have had some side effects that could potentially be serious and need to be investigated.

Will repost the recently released large us study comparing infection vs vaccine. There is no comparison.

We should focus more on inexpensive therapeutics, especially for the at-risk.

Therapeutics should be looked at too. Which ones are you promoting?

 

[willidan]

From April 8, a large US cohort.
Cardiac Complications After SARS-CoV-2 Infection and mRNA COVID-19 ..

The study population consisted of 15,215,178 persons aged ≥5 years, including 814,524 in the infection cohort; 2,548,334 in the first dose cohort; 2,483,597 in the second dose cohort; 1,681,169 in the unspecified dose cohort; and 6,713,100 in the any dose cohort (Table 1).††

The incidence of cardiac outcomes after mRNA COVID-19 vaccination was highest for males aged 12–17 years after the second vaccine dose; however, within this demographic group, the risk for cardiac outcomes was 1.8–5.6 times as high after SARS-CoV-2 infection than after the second vaccine dose. The risk for cardiac outcomes was likewise significantly higher after SARS-CoV-2 infection than after first, second, or unspecified dose of mRNA COVID-19 vaccination for all other groups by sex and age (RR 2.2–115.2).

 

[kiddiedoc]

A) It is false [that there would be less cases of Covid-19 if everyone were vaccinated.]
B) The risk of hospitalization and death would be reduced for only the old and those with multiple co-morbidities [as a result of complete vaccination of those eligible.]
C) Healthy, younger people don't need the jab. D) The jab put unneeded risk on healthy, younger people.
E) “The jab” serves zero purpose for healthy younger people.
F) These "vaccines" should be treated just like the flu shot and when sanity once again reigns supreme in our medical community the COVID shot will only be recommended for those that are already knocking on deaths door.
G) Only a total moron would recommend this therapeutic to a child, teen, or healthy young adult.

This list? I’ve already done it, months ago. No need to repeat it.

No, the one I posted two pages ago, which you keep ignoring.

 

[kiddiedoc]

Yes they are one that fringe of the medical community. Most, not all, physicians follow data not conspiracy or one off cases. Got physician friends all across the country who publish on this stuff. They would disagree with you.

With which positions, specifically?


The virus is likely engineered.
Children are not at serious risk from CV19.
School, sports, and extra-curricular activities should not have been taken from children.
Cloth masks are not an effective tool to stop the spread of respiratory viruses.
Herd immunity is likely the most important factor towards ending the pandemic.
Shutdowns caused a myriad of unintended damage -- financial, physical, and mental.
mRNA shots are not likely to confer lasting immunity, especially if variants emerge.
mRNA shots have had some side effects that could potentially be serious and need to be investigated.
We should focus more on inexpensive therapeutics, especially for the at-risk.

 

[RockyTop85]

No, the one I posted two pages ago, which you keep ignoring.

The one you didn’t tag me in, and somebody else had to respond to it for me to even notice it? I’m sure that was an honest mistake.

I’m not bothering friends and family with this. So I’ll do you one better: let’s just assume that all 18 physicians whose opinions I know regarding the things on my list would universally ignore the fact that half of your list is rank opinion about topics that are outside the scope of any medical practice, and would lavish you with affirmation for every single item.

That was your effort at seeming competent. And it still doesn’t change their opinion about the dumb **** you’ve said on here in the past. (It wasn’t good).

 

[RockyTop85]

No, the one I posted two pages ago, which you keep ignoring.

Here you go, crazy person.

In perhaps the least surprising thing to ever happen, this (#20,663) was completely correct. Except the workaround wasn’t buried it was directly in the statute referenced in the biologics license.

Section 42 USC 262 allows the FDA to approve biosimilar, interchangeable products under the auspices of a pre-existing approval for a reference product.

Here’s 42 USC 262(i)(4), specifically, note the definition of a “reference product.”
42 U.S. Code § 262 - Regulation of biological products

(4) The term “reference product” means the single biological product licensed under subsection (a) against which a biological product is evaluated in an application submitted under subsection (k).

Subsection (a) is the biologics license application process under which FDA approval is given. That is the same section used by Pfizer and the FDA to approve Comirnaty. See: approval of Pfizer Biologics License Application (BLA) linked below, and note that “Section 351(a) of the Public Health Service Act” is the same 42 USC 262 linked above. If you have doubts about that, you can confirm it with a Google search.

https://www.fda.gov/media/154939/download

So, since there is an approved biologics license for “Comirnaty,” granted pursuant to Section 351(a), it is a “reference product” as defined in 42 USC 262.

Now see the definition of interchangeable from 42 USC 262(i)(3).

(3) The term “interchangeable” or “interchangeability”, in reference to a biological product that is shown to meet the standards described in subsection (k)(4), means that the biological product may be substituted for the reference product without the intervention of the health care provider who prescribed the reference product.

Subsection (k) describes an abbreviated application and approval process involving comparison of biosimilars to a reference product. Basically, if the product meets the criteria for “biosimilar,” then it can be grandfathered in.

Here it is Explained by the US Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit:

Amgen Inc. v. Sandoz, Inc., 794 F. 3d 1347 - Court of Appeals, Federal Circuit 2015 - Google Scholar

It’s not clear that Pfizer applied under this subsection, but I also can’t find their application under subsection (a), and it makes sense that those would contain protected information. Regardless, the FDA has given guidance to caregivers saying that the two are interchangeable. (See footnote 1 here: https://www.fda.gov/media/155234/download, and also several places here: https://www.fda.gov/media/153716/download).

I assume the old name is retained on the labeling because this makes the drugs more versatile given that there are still some EUA only uses.

Also worth noting that the approval posture for Moderna’s spikevax brand seems the exact same.

This post is not legal advice. As always, hire a lawyer. (You’re gonna need one because, from now on, you can’t argue with me, I’m an attorney.)[/quote]

 

[Rickyvol77]

And, if this is even remotely true, you need to find some different doctors!

He has no clue. Nearly every doctor in our hospital system agrees with you too

 

[Rickyvol77]

The one you didn’t tag me in, and somebody else had to respond to it for me to even notice it? I’m sure that was an honest mistake.

I’m not bothering friends and family with this. So I’ll do you one better: let’s just assume that all 18 physicians whose opinions I know regarding the things on my list would universally ignore the fact that half of your list is rank opinion about topics that are outside the scope of any medical practice, and would lavish you with affirmation for every single item.

That was your effort at seeming competent. And it still doesn’t change their opinion about the dumb **** you’ve said on here in the past. (It wasn’t good).

18 physicians?

 

[RockyTop85]

18 physicians?

I’m assuming you’ve made a bad assumption somewhere because knowing what 18 physicians think about the vaccine doesn’t seem funny to me.