War in Ukraine

#226
#226
Orangeburst said:
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Think he was killed in an accident?
 
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#228
#228
hog88 said:
Think he was killed in an accident?
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Geopolitics is a confusing place. So we arm the Russian whites pre WW1 and then FDR ally with them WW2. Big stuff.
This is almost Trump pee tape and conspiring traitor material.
 
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#229
#229
Rasputin_Vol said:
I thought we were the exceptional ones?

If I gave you my word in a face to face conversation and then I broke that word, how much respect would you have for me if I say "We didn't shake on it" or "It wasn't in writing". See, this is way bigger than regular diplomacy. This is about someone keeping their word.
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Can you point to a single treaty which has stood the test of time based on a pinky promise and not a written and acknowledged agreement? There is a reason they write them down you know.
 
#230
#230
Rasputin_Vol said:
I'll let you defend that stance. The Russians are not the only ones that knew of this unwritten agreement. Again, what does that say about us as a people when we don't keep our word, but instead hide behind "I had my fingers crossed"/"It wasn't in writing"?
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We can't even get our politicians to keep their word to U.S. citizens. Other countries should take notice of that fact.
 
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#233
#233
NorthDallas40 said:
Can you point to a single treaty which has stood the test of time based on a pinky promise and not a written and acknowledged agreement? There is a reason they write them down you know.
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So you also have no issue with our word meaning nothing.

Some of you guys reveal a lot about how you treat business in your daily lives. So it takes a signature for you to keep your end of a deal?

You really ain't s^^t if that is the case. Your word is everything.
 
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#234
#234
Rasputin_Vol said:
So you also have no issue with our word meaning nothing.

Some of you guys reveal a lot about how you treat business in your daily lives. So it takes a signature for you to keep your end of a deal?

You really ain't s^^t if that is the case. Your word is everything.
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You are completely FOS with this tack as pertaining to geopolitics. Yes Ras there is a reason they write these treaties down ESPECIALLY when dealing with us since wholesale policy change is nearly guaranteed on an 8 year rotation.
 
#235
#235
Rasputin_Vol said:
Oh that's nonsense right there. Victoria Nuland and Geoffrey Pyatt were discussing who they were going to install as the puppet leader of Ukraine within days of Maidan. Are you kidding me right now?
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Yeah, after it was underway. I don’t think the CIA orchestrated hundreds of thousands of people on the streets of Kiev, although they absolutely played a role once it was underway.
 
#236
#236
NorthDallas40 said:
You are completely FOS with this tack as pertaining to geopolitics. Yes Ras there is a reason they write these treaties down ESPECIALLY when dealing with us since wholesale policy change is nearly guaranteed on an 8 year rotation.
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We break and walk away from written deals also. What are you talking about right now?
 
#238
#238
05_never_again said:
Yeah, after it was underway. I don’t think the CIA orchestrated hundreds of thousands of people on the streets of Kiev, although they absolutely played a role once it was underway.
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There's a good chance they were definitely there setting the table between the Yanukovich decision to turn to Russia and Sochi Olympics. Not a coincidence or just some reaction to things on the ground in Kiev.
 
#239
#239
05_never_again said:
Yeah, after it was underway. I don’t think the CIA orchestrated hundreds of thousands of people on the streets of Kiev, although they absolutely played a role once it was underway.
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I’m sure they were happy opportunists to use the situation to suit their needs. At least when the bastards are interfering in geopolitics they aren’t bored at home and screwing around with the citizens… as much.
 
#240
#240
NorthDallas40 said:
Oh bull **** Ras this is all around you claiming a pinky promise on NATO encroachment and not producing any proof.
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It wasn't written down. You are asking me to offer proof of a document that doesn't exist. Yet there are plenty of people at the time that agreed that the understanding was that NATO would not expand into the former Soviet bloc. Including Americans that talk this "we didn't have a deal in writing" nonsense.

Oh and BTW, the Iranian deal wasn't written or signed, either.
 
#241
#241
NorthDallas40 said:
Oh bull **** Ras this is all around you claiming a pinky promise on NATO encroachment and not producing any proof.
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Even if you think international diplomacy runs on gentlemen’s agreements like a bet with your buddy on the golf course, these countries NATO has expanded into uniformly want it there. Is “Well, we pinky promised Putin years ago it wouldn’t expand towards him, and if we let y’all in it would make him mad” really an acceptable answer?
 
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#242
#242
Rasputin_Vol said:
It wasn't written down. You are asking me to offer proof of a document that doesn't exist. Yet there are plenty of people at the time that agreed that the understanding was that NATO would not expand into the former Soviet bloc. Including Americans that talk this "we didn't have a deal in writing" nonsense.

Oh and BTW, the Iranian deal wasn't written or signed, either.
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Guess they weren’t worth anything and nobody took them serious since nobody bothered to write things down and hold people to written commitments huh?
 
#243
#243
Rasputin_Vol said:
There's a good chance they were definitely there setting the table between the Yanukovich decision to turn to Russia and Sochi Olympics. Not a coincidence or just some reaction to things on the ground in Kiev.
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They’re opportunistic. You think way more highly of the technical skill and spycraft of the CIA and others if you think they orchestrated that out of thin air.
 
#244
#244
05_never_again said:
Even if you think international diplomacy runs on gentlemen’s agreements like a bet with your buddy on the golf course, these countries NATO has expanded into uniformly want it there. Is “Well, we pinky promised Putin years ago it wouldn’t expand towards him, and if we let y’all in it would make him mad” really an acceptable answer?
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That isn't necessarily the case. With Poland and the Baltic States, I would have to agree. But Ukraine, Hungary and Georgia... not really.
 
#245
#245
05_never_again said:
Even if you think international diplomacy runs on gentlemen’s agreements like a bet with your buddy on the golf course, these countries NATO has expanded into uniformly want it there. Is “Well, we pinky promised Putin years ago it wouldn’t expand towards him, and if we let y’all in it would make him mad” really an acceptable answer?
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I don’t think WE should be trying to get in there in the first place. It’s none of our damn business. But as Europe showed us TWICE in the last century they will eventually screw it up so badly a huge shooting war will break out. And Ukraine/Russia have just enough critical mass and animosity to be that spark.

We should all be scared shitless that the moron in the White House is whom we are counting on to steer these treacherous political waters.
 
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#246
#246
NorthDallas40 said:
Guess they weren’t worth anything and nobody took them serious since nobody bothered to write things down and hold people to written commitments huh?
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Either your word is your word or your word ain't jack s^^t. You wouldn't behave like this in your personal relations, but think this is perfectly suitable on the geopolitical stage? Keep in mind, we posture ourselves as the exceptional nation. Truth, justice and all that. But we have be kept to our word by signing a piece of paper. Our word ain't s^^t...
 
#247
#247
NorthDallas40 said:
I don’t think WE should be trying to get in there in the first place. It’s none of our damn business. But as Europe showed us TWICE in the last century they will eventually screw it up so badly a huge shooting war will break out.
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We had no business and no incentive in getting involved in either of those wars in Europe. You just said it yourself... they find ways to screw things up royally. So why entangle ourselves in their regional scuffles?
 
#248
#248
Rasputin_Vol said:
Either your word is your word or your word ain't jack s^^t. You wouldn't behave like this in your personal relations, but think this is perfectly suitable on the geopolitical stage? Keep in mind, we posture ourselves as the exceptional nation. Truth, justice and all that. But we have be kept to our word by signing a piece of paper. Our word ain't s^^t...
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Nobody’s “word” is worth **** in geopolitical politics Ras that’s why THEY WRITE THE DAMN AGREEMENTS DOWN!
 
#249
#249
Rasputin_Vol said:
We had no business and no incentive in getting involved in either of those wars in Europe. You just said it yourself... they find ways to screw things up royally. So why entangle ourselves in their regional scuffles?
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On the first war I’d agree. On the second one we were going to fight Hitler somewhere so I’d rather we do it in Europe instead of Tennessee
 
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#250
#250
NorthDallas40 said:
Nobody’s “word” is worth **** in geopolitical politics Ras that’s why THEY WRITE THE DAMN AGREEMENTS DOWN!
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Let me say it again for the last time... we posture ourselves as being above all other nations. We are exceptional. We are the shining city on the hill. Truth, justice and the American way... but our word doesn't mean sh^t. Gotta put it in writing.

If we wouldn't do all of this posturing and acting like the world police force, there would be not a word said.
 
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