War in Ukraine

#251
#251
Rasputin_Vol said:
That isn't necessarily the case. With Poland and the Baltic States, I would have to agree. But Ukraine, Hungary and Georgia... not really.
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78% of Georgians wanted NATO membership in a nonbinding referendum in 2008. I am not aware of NATO membership being remotely controversial in Hungary…in fact, at the moment NATO isn’t a big fan of Orban and “democratic backsliding” under his watch, so it’s more NATO not being a huge fan of him rather than the other way around.

Ukraine is the country where it is most controversial domestically, I will say that. Overall I’d say it leans more towards the EU.

But regardless, it’s uniformly supported in the Baltics, where Putin hates it and sees it as provocative. Those are the only NATO members that border him. Should NATO have not admitted them because of that?
 
#252
#252
Rasputin_Vol said:
Let me say it again for the last time... we posture ourselves as being above all other nations. We are exceptional. We are the shining city on the hill. Truth, justice and the American way... but our word doesn't mean sh^t. Gotta put it in writing.

If we wouldn't do all of this posturing and acting like the world police force, there would be not a word said.
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I heard you the first three times. And any “diplomat” that didn’t get it in writing is a moron.
 
#253
#253
NorthDallas40 said:
On the first war I’d agree. On the second one we were going to fight Hitler somewhere so I’d rather we do it in Europe instead of Tennessee
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Oh stop it. The Germans had their hands full with Russia. They were not going to be invading The Appalachians. You know better than that. Hell, the Germans had the same problem then that they have right now with regards to energy supplies. Plus, they would have had to maneuver past the British and American navies to launch a serious attack on the US mainland. It would have been a European war of attrition with huge casualties for Britain, Russia and Germany if we would have let them fight it out on their own over there.
 
#254
#254
05_never_again said:
78% of Georgians wanted NATO membership in a nonbinding referendum in 2008. I am not aware of NATO membership being remotely controversial in Hungary…in fact, at the moment NATO isn’t a big fan of Orban and “democratic backsliding” under his watch, so it’s more NATO not being a huge fan of him rather than the other way around.
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I wonder why???
 
#255
#255
05_never_again said:
78% of Georgians wanted NATO membership in a nonbinding referendum in 2008. I am not aware of NATO membership being remotely controversial in Hungary…in fact, at the moment NATO isn’t a big fan of Orban and “democratic backsliding” under his watch, so it’s more NATO not being a huge fan of him rather than the other way around.

Ukraine is the country where it is most controversial domestically, I will say that. Overall I’d say it leans more towards the EU.

But regardless, it’s uniformly supported in the Baltics, where Putin hates it and sees it as provocative. Those are the only NATO members that border him. Should NATO have not admitted them because of that?
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There was no need to include the Baltic States outside of being provocative.
 
#256
#256
Rasputin_Vol said:
Oh stop it. The Germans had their hands full with Russia. They were not going to be invading The Appalachians. You know better than that. Hell, the Germans had the same problem then that they have right now with regards to energy supplies. Plus, they would have had to maneuver past the British and American navies to launch a serious attack on the US mainland. It would have been a European war of attrition with huge casualties for Britain, Russia and Germany if we would have let them fight it out on their own over there.
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Oh stop it back! I’m not buying your usual water carrying here. Hitler was going to incrementally back stab everyone just like he did the Russians until he conquered the world.
 
#259
#259
NorthDallas40 said:
Oh stop it back! I’m not buying your usual water carrying here. Hitler was going to incrementally back stab everyone just like he did the Russians until he conquered the world.
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Conquer the world? Really? Again, it would have been a European blood bath/war of attrition. Germany was not conquering the world.
 
#262
#262
05_never_again said:
Because he isn’t woke.

Anyway, you’re still kind of dodging that aspect of it, which is everywhere NATO has expanded to that Putin doesn’t like, they are desperately wanted there.
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I already told you that Poland and the Baltics states I would agree with. But even with that said, the wise thing for NATO to have done would have been to either not expand to prevent any provocative actions or... since the Cold War was over and the Europeans don't pay their tabs anyways, just disband NATO and leave them to their own devices while we stay out of it.
 
#264
#264
NorthDallas40 said:
Germany would have eventually attacked us and forced that fight. You’re clueless if you claim otherwise.
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Again, they had their hands full with Russia and Germany. They were not going to throw more matches on the powder keg and attack a country in another hemisphere.
 
#266
#266
This is actually a good debate of nationalism vs globalism and what is in one nation's interest. Been going on for millennia.
It kinda speaks to me the narrative of something like federal control of education in some odd way. Those that are closet have more at stake.
 
#267
#267
Rasputin_Vol said:
Again, they had their hands full with Russia and Germany. They were not going to throw more matches on the powder keg and attack a country in another hemisphere.
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Again. Germany stabbed every ally in the back that they could to expand. Hitler couldn’t help himself Barbarossa clearly shows that.
 
#272
#272
NorthDallas40 said:
Again. Germany stabbed every ally in the back that they could to expand. Hitler couldn’t help himself Barbarossa clearly shows that.
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How long can a dishonest country continue to break deals and stab allies in the back before they eventually turn allies to enemies?
 
#273
#273
NorthDallas40 said:
Because you will point to us while ignoring the Persians. As usual. Just like you do the Russians.
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I focus on us because we posture ourselves as the exceptional nation. We should hold ourselves to a higher standard or stop all of this posturing.
 
#275
#275
Russian military capacity on Ukraine's border is on a 'more lethal scale' than 2014 Crimea invasion, US official says - CNNPolitics

Russian President Vladimir Putin has built military capacity on the border of Ukraine that is "much larger and on a much more lethal scale" than preceded Russia's 2014 invasion of Crimea, Undersecretary of State Victoria Nuland said Tuesday, warning of severe risks to Moscow if it invades Ukraine.

Moscow has positioned approximately 100 tactical groups and nearly all its ready ground forces based west of the Urals at different spots along its border with Ukraine, Nuland told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. "Much of this comes right out of Putin's 2014 playbook," Nuland said, "but this time, it is much larger and on a much more lethal scale."

Speaking with CNN's Jake Tapper on "The Lead" after her Senate appearance, Nuland also said Russia now has forces on three sides of Ukraine, "which is not a scenario we've seen before."

Nuland, in that appearance later Tuesday, said Russia might use Belarus to invade Ukraine and perhaps "mask" its forces to look like Belarusian troops, a point she had emphasized in the Senate hearing as well.
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