War in Ukraine

#40,476
#40,476
Rocky_Top_Vol13 said:
I hate to break it to you, but 99.9% of all stuff posted on social media is biased in one way or another. Do I believe these numbers are accurate? No. Are they probably exaggerated? Yes, absolutely. But they do offer a starting point to put things into perspective. Even if they are exaggerated by a two to one ratio that would would mean Russia has lost more than 20,000 soldiers and more than 2000 pieces of military machinery. Whether or not Russia miscalculated in thinking that other countries would come to Ukraine's aid or just the will of the Ukrainians to fight, either way, Russia has lost face on the world stage. I don't know how this conflict will end. Russia will probably try to drag this out as long as it can hoping other countries will tire of supporting Ukraine and eventually Russia will be able to bleed them dry. Russia will claim a victory but everyone in the world with a mental capacity of a turnip or better, will know that Russia screwed the pooch on this one very badly.
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Bleeding out the west worked so well for the Soviets in Afghanistan before....
 
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#40,478
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LouderVol said:
You mean before or after the Russians depopulated it, this time, so they could move in even more Russians?

There were a number of protests with mass arrests. There have also been a number of sabotages as well, that the Russians try to sell as ammo spontaneously cooking off because of the 80 degree weather. You know the same ammo they use in Syrian summers and have no issues with.
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The population of Crimea is around 75% ethnic Russian. Meaning three fourths belong to the Russian race. Historically, Crimea was not a part of Ukraine. So it shouldn't be a problem to let them determine their own fate.
 
#40,479
#40,479
volgr said:
Give me a rational take and I will engage. That is trollish.
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Rational take?

You dont think the Russians have depopulated Crimea before? Or that they arent doing it now?
Putin ‘resettling Ukrainians 5,500 miles away in Russia’s far east
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ha...0000181-fc8d-db23-abf7-fced39720000?_amp=true
'The mouth of a bear': Nearly 2 million Ukrainian refugees sent to Russia
Shifting Loyalty: Moscow Accused Of Reshaping Annexed Crimea's Demographics According to official Russian statistics, some 247,000 Russians have moved to Crimea since annexation. At the same time, about 140,000 people have left, mostly Ukrainians and Crimean Tatars who moved to the Ukrainian mainland.
This is just what we know about too.
 
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#40,480
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#40,481
#40,481
Russia is having a hard time sourcing airplane parts, microchips, etc....but their citizens wont freeze this winter, or be financially devastated paying not to freeze.

 
#40,485
#40,485
Gandalf said:
But it only looks like that because of the info we are being fed. I would agree that based on what I have seen, it definitely does not look like this was a well orchestrated invasion in any way or that things are going all that well for Russia. That said, I understand my own biases and am trying to look beyond them in what information is being fed to us by a media who is part of the proxy campaign our military is waging.

Whether in the last century = The first casualty when war comes is truth - Hiram W Johnson
or ancient times = In war, truth is the first casualty. - Aeschylus

or even a quote from a popular game Call of Duty:
“This is for the record. History is written by the victor. History is filled with liars. If he lives, and we die, his truth becomes written - and ours is lost. Shepherd will be a hero, 'cause all you need to change the world is one good lie and a river of blood. He's about to complete the greatest trick a liar ever played on history. His truth will be the truth. But only if he lives, and we die.” ― Captain John Price

Trouble is that all humans tend to think it is the "other guys" who are telling the lies, so that we do not see it from our own.

Point is - who knows what the upshot of all this will be in the end? Russia may be better or worse off after all this but Ukraine will most certainly not "win" much of anything, irrespective of the outcome.
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I have absolutely no doubt we are not getting the truth from either side, everyone involved has cranked up the propaganda machine to 10. However for Russia, supposed world power can’t take Ukraine in 6 months they are incompetent booobs.
 
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#40,487
#40,487
hog88 said:
I have absolutely no doubt we are not getting the truth from either side, everyone involved has cranked up the propaganda machine to 10. However for Russia, supposed world power can’t take Ukraine in 6 months they are incompetent booobs.
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Im sure much was said of our ability or challenges to it rather, in our Iraq pacification and Afghanistan campaigns. Mind you, our problem is not the baseline troops (yet) but idiot leadership, while Russia seems to have a bit of both. If we were going to take Ukraine ourselves from a bordering country, think how slowly we would proceed.

The one thing that has surprised me really though is the lack of air superiority. This is stock and trade for the USA of course. Air dominance -> blow the bejeebus out of everything on the ground and make it a smoking rubble -> precision long range artillery to obliterate anything the planes missed -> send in heavy cav supported by infantry to do the door to door. Only then does our media actually get to see anything. But it all starts with air superiority. Cant understand why Russia hasnt focused on that before they put ground troops in. They have the assets I think - maybe they have to keep them in reserve against strategic attacks?
 
#40,490
#40,490
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Okay, say Putin drops a rather tame by today's standards nuke on Kiev and a million or two people are killed and downtown Kiev is flattened.

Does the West, essentially the US, have an answer?

Looks like a win for Putin unless the US wants WWIII.

As this war is going, Putin is looking at Brezhnev in Afghanistan or Johnson in Vietnam or Bush in Iraq..... a war you can't leave as a winner, unless....... a mini nuke on Kiev.

From there, the CIA, the US, Europe..... have to decide if the Ukraine is worth WWIII. Are the various -stan countries? Do we actually fight for Romania?

Do we negotiate? Regardless of if it's Joe or Donald, do we want to play chicken with humanity over the Baltic States/Eastern Europe?
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We keep doing what we're doing. We stop when Ukraine calls it quits, negotiates or Russia goes home. The threat of nuclear war has been with us for over 70 years. Nothing that happens in Ukraine will change that. Putin has nothing to gain by nuking Kyiv. It's extremely unlikely that we would retaliate and he would become a world pariah that would likely be killed by his inner circle.
 
#40,491
#40,491
LouderVol said:
According to official Russian statistics, some 247,000 Russians have moved to Crimea since annexation. At the same time, about 140,000 people have left, mostly Ukrainians and Crimean Tatars who moved to the Ukrainian mainland.
This is just what we know about too.
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Is Newsom "depopulating" CA of Conservatives? Looking around in my area, where we have quite a few CA transplants over the last few years, it would appear so.
 
#40,492
#40,492
Hunerwadel said:
We keep doing what we're doing. We stop when Ukraine calls it quits, negotiates or Russia goes home. The threat of nuclear war has been with us for over 70 years. Nothing that happens in Ukraine will change that. Putin has nothing to gain by nuking Kyiv. It's extremely unlikely that we would retaliate and he would become a world pariah that would likely be killed by his inner circle.
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entering a war with no defined exit?

classic-back-to-the-future.gif
 
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#40,493
#40,493
volgr said:
Is Newsom "depopulating" CA of Conservatives? Looking around in my area, where we have quite a few CA transplants over the last few years, it would appear so.
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Some of these people moving from CA are very democrat in their ways. I refuse to call them liberal.
 
#40,494
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DonjoVol said:
It depends if you want to consider Russia part of Europe or Asia.

Anyways it isn't like Russia was invading a small country with a small military. Which is what FL Vol was claiming. Plus Russia isn't using anywhere close to their entire military force in the invasion.
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I don't guess you remember as Russia was amassing for war Ukrainians in civilian clothing were training with rifles carved out of wood. No, they had a small army but it grew quickly.
 
#40,495
#40,495
Hunerwadel said:
I don't guess you remember as Russia was amassing for war Ukrainians in civilian clothing were training with rifles carved out of wood. No, they had a small army but it grew quickly.
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They didn't have a small Army. Yes they have a small Air Force and Navy but their actual Army is and was larger than any other country in Europe.
 
#40,497
#40,497
Hunerwadel said:
We keep doing what we're doing. We stop when Ukraine calls it quits, negotiates or Russia goes home. The threat of nuclear war has been with us for over 70 years. Nothing that happens in Ukraine will change that. Putin has nothing to gain by nuking Kyiv. It's extremely unlikely that we would retaliate and he would become a world pariah that would likely be killed by his inner circle.
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Putin isn't already a pariah? He's not respected, only feared. Countries deal with Russia for resources but no one trusts him. We deal with China but do we respect or trust them?

Putin in the Ukraine is his first serious blunder. He's been annoying in Syria, rolling into Crimea, etc, but Ukraine is well connected to the West and has zero desire to be under Russia's thumb again and the West is funding and arming them.

Putin has his Vietnam in the Ukraine. Like it or not, the US looked like sh*t at the end of Vietnam and Russia looked like sh*t at the end of their war in Afghanistan. Putin knows that.

Putin is KGB. Putin poisons people with exotic radioactive elements and delights that everyone knows he did it and won't do a damn thing about it. He's as a subtle as a hurricane.

His reaction to internal pressure about Ukraine could easily be "f*** it, I'm going nuke. The world doesn't want WWIII and won't start it over Kiev and Ukraine."

He's right. We don't want WWIII over Ukraine or Putin putting the USSR back together. Do we?
 
#40,498
#40,498
DonjoVol said:
I hear Ukrainian soldiers are also surrendering or refusing to fight.
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That's been going on since the start. Just read accounts from Ukr mercs who made it out. Brutal conditions. Zelensky regime is also brutal. Very likely if they are found to have deserted, there will be severe penalties for them and or their family. No win situation for these poor men.
 
#40,500
#40,500
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Putin has his Vietnam in the Ukraine. Like it or not, the US looked like sh*t at the end of Vietnam and Russia looked like sh*t at the end of their war in Afghanistan. Putin knows that.
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I completely disagree, so long as this doesn't escalate any further and remains only a proxy war in Ukraine. Russia will come out of this with a renewed confidence. They beat the West both militarily and economically.
 
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