War in Ukraine

#40,826
#40,826
LouderVol said:
Throwing dog crap at Ukraine and destroying the countryside and Germany were never the goals. Which is exactly his point.
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Germany (Europe) wasn't the goal until they started following what the United States wanted, that has now opened the door against them. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Destroying the Ukraine if they don't bend a knee was always a goal.
 
#40,828
#40,828
DonjoVol said:
No. I want Russia and Ukraine to find a peaceful solution. I've said that before.

I also have enough common sense to know that the U.S. should have never gotten involved in the foreign affairs of Ukraine and that way too much money aid is being wasted there.

Curious. Do you honestly believe everything you share in this thread from the supposed "mainstream" outlets.
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What possible peaceful solution is there outside of Ukraine subjugating itself to Russia?
 
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#40,829
#40,829
hog88 said:
What possible peaceful solution is there outside of Ukraine subjugating itself to Russia?
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Russia has very little reason to negotiate at this point, the United States ****ed that all up. They will wait to see how Germany does over the winter. Continue to throw dog **** and turn the place into a parking lot.
 
#40,831
#40,831
DonjoVol said:
It might not have necessarily been you. But your Ukrainian troll pals went on and on how all this would bring Russia back to the dark ages, bring them to their knees, Kremlin coup, Putin's blood cancer and Parkinsons, Lukashenko needs listerine, Himars, blah blah blah, etc etc.

Some of us tried being reasonable. Perhaps you should start listening to us who are actually trying to be reasonable and using common sense.
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Well when you start let me know.

I have still yet to see you guys even question the straight up Russian propaganda pieces.

The truth is somewhere in the middle. The west is just as wrong as Russia is. Take that however you want. You guys will literally not even acknowledge anything that doesnt say everything is going great for Russia, which likely explains your strategic withdrawls from this thread. If you guys would at least acknowledge the few set backs there have been for Russia you could talk about common sense.

Seriously, say one thing that first did not come from a Russian mouth piece. Zero hedge has been parroting .tass this entire time. In fact that's all they do is steal/plagiarize whatever slightly edgy opinions they can find which is why they always hide behind Tyler Durden.
 
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#40,832
#40,832
LSU-SIU said:
Sure it does, foreigners (military) are not going to go through the area in mass as tactical nukes will be used. 20-30m Russians are not going to die in the Ukraine... that whole place will look like a parking lot within 6-12 months.
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And it could have if the west ever attacked through ukraine without this war....russia would have used Ukraine as a middle ground even if NATO never even moved east beyond west germany. Even under NATO ukraine is still the middle ground that gets nuked by russia. Why do they need tactical nukes in Ukraine to nuke Ukraine?
 
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#40,833
#40,833
LouderVol said:
Well when you start let me know.

I have still yet to see you guys even question the straight up Russian propaganda pieces.

The truth is somewhere in the middle. The west is just as wrong as Russia is. Take that however you want. You guys will literally not even acknowledge anything that doesnt say everything is going great for Russia, which likely explains your strategic withdrawls from this thread. If you guys would at least acknowledge the few set backs there have been for Russia you could talk about common sense.

Seriously, say one thing that first did not come from a Russian mouth piece. Zero hedge has been parroting .tass this entire time. In fact that's all they do is steal/plagiarize whatever slightly edgy opinions they can find which is why they always hide behind Tyler Durden.
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So many parties have used Ukraine as a political sandbox us included. But absolutely nothing justifies Putin’s invasion and raping the country. That’s a fact.
 
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#40,834
#40,834
LouderVol said:
And it could have if the west ever attacked through ukraine without this war....russia would have used Ukraine as a middle ground even if NATO never even moved east beyond west germany. Even under NATO ukraine is still the middle ground that gets nuked by russia. Why do they need tactical nukes in Ukraine to nuke Ukraine?
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If there are NATO troops and nukes in the Ukraine, when they came over the border... Russia has to nuke Russia. LOL Its just buffer, that's where the nuclear war would take place.

I noticed your comments about propaganda, ultimately I don't think propaganda really changes things much at the end of the day. They will continue to fight and turn the whole country into a parking lot. Ukraine lost.

Now its onto Germany (Europe), different war, no trench warfare required.
 
#40,835
#40,835
LSU-SIU said:
You are working under the assumption Russia wants to keep land, they will only keep land where the people want them there. Its pretty clear what they are doing.... destroy it. <---- this isn't a nation building exercise. They are escalating as the other side escalates.... most of the infrastructure is still in place and Kiev. How much is left in 6-12 months... probably not much.

Throw dog crap until Ukraine doesn't exist.

The other side is like the same ole thing.... send money/send equipment into a black hole until the masses back home figure out the scam. Which is a repeat of the previous scam.
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Yes and Russia is playing their part in that same scam. Or are they not sending equipment into Ukraine.

If you want to argue dog crap why didnt Russia start with that? It took them months to dig out the t62s apparently. And they only came out after they lost their nice equipment. I guess those VDVs assaults at the Kiev airport was also just crap?

The russians are resorting to crap because it's all they have left they are willing to throw in there.
 
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#40,837
#40,837
LSU-SIU said:
I see the exact opposite, no negotiations and Russia will just continue.... at this point it doesn't make sense for Russia to negotiate for the short-term i.e. Germany. If they wanted it bloody they could have carpet bombed Kiev long ago.

I would recommend reading the ZH article including some of the comments from Dmitry Medvedev, seems logical to me. The Russian keep telling everyone what they are going to do, most of this is very obvious.
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you mean they keep changing what they are telling people. Like I said earlier. First it was liberation. Then it was denazifying the place. Then throwing out the west. Now it's to turn it into rubble despite admitting the biggest pile of potential rubble is largely untouched.

Why read what Russia says today? You literally are selling their propaganda from state owned sources. I can wait three months and find out what they really want. Until three months after that, and repeat repeat repeat.
 
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#40,838
#40,838
LouderVol said:
you mean they keep changing what they are telling people. Like I said earlier. First it was liberation. Then it was denazifying the place. Then throwing out the west. Now it's to turn it into rubble despite admitting the biggest pile of potential rubble is largely untouched.

Why read what Russia says today? You literally are selling their propaganda from state owned sources. I can wait three months and find out what they really want. Until three months after that, and repeat repeat repeat.
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Who reads anything from Russia, the politicians are telling you what they are going to do. The fog of war is a thing. Who cares? At the end of the day, Ukraine lost, not much can be done about that. Another 6-12 months and it will look like a Walmart parking lot.

But Ukraine just blew up some old tanks, send us money! :p None of that is going to change that Ukraine is going to just an empty spot on a map.
 
#40,840
#40,840
LSU-SIU said:
Germany (Europe) wasn't the goal until they started following what the United States wanted, that has now opened the door against them. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Destroying the Ukraine if they don't bend a knee was always a goal.
Click to expand...
So then Ukriane wasnt a threat to join NATO if the rest of the west wasnt on board with the US's goals for Ukraine. Which means Russia was in the wrong on that threat. And actually shot themselves in the foot by adding more NATO to their border.

No, destroying Ukraine was never the goal. Unless you are saying what Russia has been spewing for the last six months is complete bs. Please show me one source from Russia talking about the destruction of Ukraines countryside more than a month ago. I will wait.
 
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#40,841
#40,841
LouderVol said:
The russian argument is they dont want another WW2 event of Germany pushing into Russia.

My argument is they are stepping backwards and not forwards, and are directly repeating events that lead up to the situation they want to avoid.
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That is an excuse, they just want Ukraine back into their country. NATO could have made a move against them under Yeltsin or early Putin era when they were very vulnerable militarily.
 
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#40,842
#40,842
LouderVol said:
So then Ukriane wasnt a threat to join NATO if the rest of the west wasnt on board with the US's goals for Ukraine. Which means Russia was in the wrong on that threat. And actually shot themselves in the foot by adding more NATO to their border.

No, destroying Ukraine was never the goal. Unless you are saying what Russia has been spewing for the last six months is complete bs. Please show me one source from Russia talking about the destruction of Ukraines countryside more than a month ago. I will wait.
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Obviously Ukraine was trying to join NATO, not sure where you are getting that from. How could Russia wait longer, you are saying they are having a hard time? You are justifying why they invaded.

No, destroying Ukraine was never the goal.
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I said they either bend the knee or get destroyed. They could have bent the knee and Russia would have been happy with that, I would imagine.
 
#40,843
#40,843
NorthDallas40 said:
So many parties have used Ukraine as a political sandbox us included. But absolutely nothing justifies Putin’s invasion and raping the country. That’s a fact.
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Agreed. If they wanted a neutral Ukraine they should have pushed for actual neutrality instead of Russian occupation. As I have suggested before. Russia should have worked with the old Soviet republics to set up a third party faction. Tied to neither the west or Russia. If either side had tried to pull them in it would instead push them.to the other. Instead russia wants puppets, not neutral buffer grounds.
 
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#40,844
#40,844
volbound1700 said:
That is an excuse, they just want Ukraine back into their country. NATO could have made a move against them under Yeltsin or early Putin era when they were very vulnerable militarily.
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If NATO is in the Ukraine with nukes, than Russia couldn't use the area for TNs. It really is that simple. LOL
 
#40,845
#40,845
LSU-SIU said:
Obviously Ukraine was trying to join NATO, not sure where you are getting that from. How could Russia wait longer, you are saying they are having a hard time? You are justifying why they invaded.



I said they either bend the knee or get destroyed. They could have bent the knee and Russia would have been happy with that, I would imagine.
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You know you’re on the right side of history when you sound like the Mad King.
 
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#40,849
#40,849
tvolsfan said:
You know you’re on the right side of history when you sound like the Mad King.
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I thought the terms were pretty simple, get rid of the weapons and stop the NATO ********. LOL Those terms are probably gone at this point, the Ukraine is well on its way to being the largest parking lot in the world.
 
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