War in Ukraine

#42,802
#42,802
Rasputin_Vol said:
And still, you ignore the attacks on the people in Donbas and NATO moving into Ukraine and arming them to the teeth. One more time, if the US were in the same situation, we would have done the same. In fact, I will go one step further... had the US gone into a conflict on the same grounds as Russia, it would be unquestionably one of the more justifiable conflicts that we would have ever engaged in.
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Russia stirring rebellion in the Donbas is the reason there was fighting there. Quit ignoring Putin's culpability for what was going on there, that was an internal issue that Putin fed the flames to. Yes, NATO began arming the Ukrainians AFTER Putin invaded. Remember prior to the invasion we/NATO were not sending offensive weaponry to Ukraine. And so what if European countries were selling arms to Ukraine, only a fool would believe that Ukraine was on the verge of invading Russia.

No, the US would not be justified in invading another country on the same grounds Russia has fabricated as justification.
 
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#42,803
#42,803
MontyPython said:
1% of our US budget is too much to spend on Ukraine eh? Heh.

Being 40, you missed out on most of the Cold War. USSR where we spent ummm... umpteen bazillion over 40+ year WITH THE SOLE PURPOSE OF DEFEATING RUSSIA.
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And we had a smaller deficit then than we do now.

The issue is we never stopped spending like we were trying to defeat the USSR. Even after they collapsed. Each president has only accelerated it. And now you are arguing to increase that acceleration again. Our growth has not accelerated to the same degree, hence the increasing deficit.
 
#42,804
#42,804
Rasputin_Vol said:
And still, you ignore the attacks on the people in Donbas and NATO moving into Ukraine and arming them to the teeth. One more time, if the US were in the same situation, we would have done the same. In fact, I will go one step further... had the US gone into a conflict on the same grounds as Russia, it would be unquestionably one of the more justifiable conflicts that we would have ever engaged in.
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Odd..you act like NATO exists to invade other countries, sort of like Russia has been doing. It existed to counter the Warsaw Pact. After the fabulous failure and collapse of the Soviet Union it literally has only engaged in security missions and peacekeeping when in other countries, often ex Soviet/Commie ones (shocking..). NATO hasn't invaded anyone, ever. So why is Russia so fearful of NATO?

Answer: Russia's misguided perception of their own self worth and standing in the world. No one wants to come to Russia..to visit, to live, to do anything, let alone invade. NATO boogeyman got you hook, line, and sinker.
 
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#42,805
#42,805
DonjoVol said:
Oh and don't forget. These trolls believe Ukrainians are dying on their behalf as well.
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Literally no one believes that other than possibly you Curly as it is an absurd conclusion.

…

Ok I’m positive you believe that Curly.

Ukrainians are dying because asshat Pootin invaded their country and started killing them. It’s as simple as that.
 
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#42,806
#42,806
hog88 said:
No, the US would not be justified in invading another country on the same grounds Russia has fabricated as justification.
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The United States has invaded many countries with much less grounds i.e. Grenada, Panama, Somalia, a blockade of Cuba (which is a war act), bombing of Yugoslavia, Gulf War I, Gulf War II, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, etc. All of these were sovereign nations, all of it was/is fabrication of justification... with no real capability to directly confront the United States and in most cases no even implied threat existed.

Literally there are too many to even list, it just goes on and on.

Listening to Americans on this subject is quite bizarre to be honest.

In Syria the United States was supplying arms to 3 of the 5 players in the area, one of which is a designated terrorist organization. The United States was selling arms to gangs in Mexico, and the Bushs' were flying drugs and weapons back and forth to Central America to and for the "freedom fighters".
 
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#42,807
#42,807
Septic said:
Ukrainians are dying (needlessly) to protect their sovereignty. It's something to be admired, not ridiculed - that these people would stand up for themselves against all odds. When I use the term needlessly, I'm referring to Putin's land grab pet project and aspirations of a "unified Russia" that he want's a personal prize.

I feel like people who can't reconcile this must be either be french surrender monkeys or vandy fans.
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Sweet Deer Jesus there are women and children in these threads man!
deer-jesus-59c590ed2b381.jpeg
 
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#42,809
#42,809
LSU-SIU said:
The United States has invaded many countries with much less grounds i.e. Grenada, Panama, Somalia, a blockade of Cuba (which is a war act), bombing of Yugoslavia, Gulf War I, Gulf War II, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, etc. All of these were sovereign nations, all of it was/is fabrication of justification... with no real capability to directly confront the United States and in most cases no even implied threat existed.

Literally there are too many to even list, it just goes on and on.

Listening to Americans on this subject is quite bizarre to be honest.

In Syria the United States was supplying arms to 3 of the 5 players in the area, one of which is a designated terrorist organization. The United States was selling arms to gangs in Mexico, and the Bushs' were flying drugs and weapons back and forth to Central America to and for the "freedom fighters".
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And? What point are you trying to make?
 
#42,810
#42,810
Combine Ras's rhetoric with that of Bozo the tiger fan over here and Putin's benevolent leniency in the face of an existential threat is unforgivable weakness. The logical conclusion is for russians to pop Putin and push the button.
 
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#42,811
#42,811
hog88 said:
And? What point are you trying to make?
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All nations put in false justifications for war or invasions its called point of view. I don't enough about the Ukraine to know exactly what has been going on over there, I can say the Russians have warned all parties for 20 years to start cooperating. Either way, its not really my business other than an observer.

I feel like plenty of warnings were given, imo.
 
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#42,812
#42,812
LSU-SIU said:
All nations put in false justifications for war or invasions its called point of view. I don't enough about the Ukraine to know exactly what has been going on over there, I can say the Russians have warned all parties for 20 years to start cooperating. Either way, its not really my business other than an observer.

I feel like plenty of warnings were given, imo.
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So it just another whataboutism post? If it makes you feel better I agree that we as a country have done some really bad ****.

Sorry @Septic for stealing your main argument on any subject.
 
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#42,813
#42,813
Europe generally needs to hold back to prevent the conflict from expanding past ukraine. If they get heavily involved russia could use that as a pretext to expand the conflict. It's counterintuitive, but the support for ukraine needs to come from the us primarily.

Concerning that, the us needs to be careful what tech makes it over there. Anything we send is subject to capture and study by the enemy.
 
#42,814
#42,814
jvol1 said:
Europe generally needs to hold back to prevent the conflict from expanding past ukraine. If they get heavily involved russia could use that as a pretext to expand the conflict. It's counterintuitive, but the support for ukraine needs to come from the us primarily.

Concerning that, the us needs to be careful what tech makes it over there. Anything we send is subject to capture and study by the enemy.
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Other than using nukes Russia has proven that they are incapable of expanding the conflict outside of Ukraine. Europe should be paying for Ukraine's defense, not us.
 
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#42,816
#42,816
hog88 said:
So it just another whataboutism post? If it makes you feel better I agree that we as a country have done some really bad ****.

Sorry @Septic for stealing your main argument on any subject.
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Its more or less the facts, but listening to Americans on this subject with all the drama is kind of funny. At the end of the day, its not our business and in my opinion the United States caused all this. (that last part is my opinion)

I don't really see anything wrong with what Russia is doing but its mostly irrelevant as to my opinion - its their conflict.

Nobody really cares about any of those people, all of this was avoidable. Crocodile tears from some (not saying you) is quite funny. Let'em fight.
 
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#42,817
#42,817
hog88 said:
Russia stirring rebellion in the Donbas is the reason there was fighting there. Quit ignoring Putin's culpability for what was going on there, that was an internal issue that Putin fed the flames to. Yes, NATO began arming the Ukrainians AFTER Putin invaded. Remember prior to the invasion we/NATO were not sending offensive weaponry to Ukraine. And so what if European countries were selling arms to Ukraine, only a fool would believe that Ukraine was on the verge of invading Russia.

No, the US would not be justified in invading another country on the same grounds Russia has fabricated as justification.
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The people themselves wanted breakaway on their own. Once the leadership they elected was overthrown, they no longer saw the govt in Kyiv as legitimate. It's funny how people become disgruntled after elections are stolen or overturned... I think most Americans can relate to that.

And also, when Luhansk and Donetsk held referendums and voted to join Russia in the spring of 2014, Putin rejected their referendums and instead pushed for a diplomatic solution with the Minsk ceasefire agreements. Putin could have very easily accepted their proposals 8 years ago, so don't act as though Putin was just itching to grab up Donbas because that would be a lie. It was only after the 8 years of shelling and attacks that pushed him to accept these areas in February.
 
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#42,819
#42,819
Rasputin_Vol said:
The people themselves wanted breakaway on their own. Once the leadership they elected was overthrown, they no longer saw the govt in Kyiv as legitimate. It's funny how people become disgruntled after elections are stolen or overturned... I think most Americans can relate to that.

And also, when Luhansk and Donetsk held referendums and voted to join Russia in the spring of 2014, Putin rejected their referendums and instead pushed for a diplomatic solution with the Minsk ceasefire agreements. Putin could have very easily accepted their proposals 8 years ago, so don't act as though Putin was just itching to grab up Donbas because that would be a lie. It was only after the 8 years of shelling and attacks that pushed him to accept these areas in February.
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LMAO Moe has found a kindred soul for his dumbassery 😂🤡
 
#42,820
#42,820
hog88 said:
And? What point are you trying to make?
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The point is that you look ridiculous and hypocritical saying anything about Russia when the US has done more invading of sovereignty countries and his heading down the path of tyranny far faster than Russia.

You guys act like Putin is Hitler or Mao, while screaming at the top of your lungs how good and virtuous America (allegedly) is.

Putin helped to bring back the Russian Orthodox church after 70+ years of communism. Is America seeing a revival in the church right now or are we a hedonistic and demonic country right now? Putin actually has helped to create a real domestic economy and has then essentially energy independent. Can the United States make that claim? In Putin's Russia, there are only 2 genders. Can you goofy American nuthuggers make that same claim?

In my lifetime, going back to Nixon, I would trade Putin for most of the POTUSs we had outside of Reagan and Trump. And depending on what day it is, I might even prefer him over Trump. Any attack you level at Putin can be equally leveled at the majority of the clowns we had on Pennsylvania Avenue. You all are just too dumb or bigoted to see the truth.
 
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#42,821
#42,821
LSU-SIU said:
All nations put in false justifications for war or invasions its called point of view. I don't enough about the Ukraine to know exactly what has been going on over there, I can say the Russians have warned all parties for 20 years to start cooperating. Either way, its not really my business other than an observer.

I feel like plenty of warnings were given, imo.
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Warnings were given, but NATO felt they don't have to recognize the military concerns of Russia... or China for that matter. All they know how to do is provocate, sanction, and lecture. Genuine diplomacy and playing well with others is not in their toolbag.
 
#42,822
#42,822
Rasputin_Vol said:
In my lifetime, going back to Nixon, I would trade Putin for most of the POTUSs we had outside of Reagan and Trump. .
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Absolutely no one but yourself is preventing you from making Pootin your lord and savior today Moe. Might as well formally instantiate your decades long hero worship from afar
 
#42,825
#42,825
jvol1 said:
Europe generally needs to hold back to prevent the conflict from expanding past ukraine. If they get heavily involved russia could use that as a pretext to expand the conflict. It's counterintuitive, but the support for ukraine needs to come from the us primarily.

Concerning that, the us needs to be careful what tech makes it over there. Anything we send is subject to capture and study by the enemy.
Click to expand...
Here is another delusional and insane post. Here you are making to case for Europe to have zero involvement and for the US to be 100% involved. That is totally out of phase with common sense and logic.
 
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