War in Ukraine

[LouderVol]

I guess Pootin shouldn’t have been a dumbass and convinced Sweden and Finland to join NATO then huh Moe?

Yeah they have never explained that. Ukraine possibly joining NATO is the end of Russia. Finland joining NATO is a huge stinking pile of "meh" we dont care what NATO does.

 

[Septic]

So it just another whataboutism post? If it makes you feel better I agree that we as a country have done some really bad ****.

Sorry @Septic for stealing your main argument on any subject.

I just call it how I see it, you should to - when it applies.

 

[LouderVol]

Ukraine ceased to be free and independent after the Obama State Department overthrew the democratically elected leader in 2014. Ukraine is essentially a NATO vassal state right now.

You mean Russia bought off the guy who ran on closer ties to the west. Also what about the two elections since then? How many elections away from the event do we have to be before you accept them?

 

[Septic]

You mean Russia bought off the guy who ran on closer ties to the west. Also what about the two elections since then? How many elections away from the event do we have to be before you accept them?

It doesn't matter. His attempts to justify bad behavior with examples of bad behavior are a logical fallacy he can't seem to overcome intellectually.

Best just to laugh and point, you won't be able to rationalize with the pootin nut huggers.

 

[LouderVol]

It always makes sense which is why sanctions, embargoes and blockades exist on top of war.

"Hey Japaneses, since you are running low on oil and you probably used some when bombing Pearl Harbor, here is some tankers of oil for sale."

they exist as separate measures from conflict, they can be part of a war but dont have to be, despite what Ras claims. Or at least if they do then that means everyone ever is at war with everyone ever because free trade has literally never existed.

And I am glad you skipped the part where I said the world wars were exceptions, and the explanation of total war involving civilians.

 

[LSU-SIU]

they exist as separate measures from conflict, they can be part of a war but dont have to be, despite what Ras claims. Or at least if they do then that means everyone ever is at war with everyone ever because free trade has literally never existed.

And I am glad you skipped the part where I said the world wars were exceptions, and the explanation of total war involving civilians.

They only exist in separation from war when there is no real war going on.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Yeah they have never explained that. Ukraine possibly joining NATO is the end of Russia. Finland joining NATO is a huge stinking pile of "meh" we dont care what NATO does.

Actually it was a big deal to Pootin until Sweden and Finland both said tough we’re petitioning to join. Then all of a sudden Pootin had no objections. More bluster from the short tyrant that he couldn’t back up

 

[LSU-SIU]

Yeah they have never explained that. Ukraine possibly joining NATO is the end of Russia. Finland joining NATO is a huge stinking pile of "meh" we dont care what NATO does.

They have no such agreements with Finland. They don't necessarily have a so so about what NATO does other than the Ukraine. LOL

This isn't complex, you might not like it or agree with it... but everyone knows why they attacked. You might not like it and they don't really care. 20+ years of warnings.

 

[MontyPython]

And we had a smaller deficit then than we do now.

The issue is we never stopped spending like we were trying to defeat the USSR. Even after they collapsed. Each president has only accelerated it. And now you are arguing to increase that acceleration again. Our growth has not accelerated to the same degree, hence the increasing deficit.

Good points.

The trend is disconcerting regardless of the absolute number.

 

[MontyPython]

This may be the most delusional post in the history of mankind. WOW...

Oh do tell.

 

[LouderVol]

Warnings were given, but NATO felt they don't have to recognize the military concerns of Russia... or China for that matter. All they know how to do is provocate, sanction, and lecture. Genuine diplomacy and playing well with others is not in their toolbag.

So why should the US back down on long held policies just to make room for shorter held policies by other nations? Free trade had been a foreign policy of the US since the Babary Pirates in 1801.

When has Russia resolved its discrepancies peacefully? Syria? Chechnaya? Afghanistan? Ukraine? When?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Having trouble reading today? I admit that we have done some reprehensible things over the last 2 centuries, several foreign military adventures that weren't justified but none of our past mistakes excuses Putin's unprovoked and unjustified invasion of Ukraine. Our sins do not excuse Putin's. I can admit that our skirts are far from clean, we have an ever increasing authoritarian and corrupt federal government and with everything we have to fix here we shouldn't be funding Ukraine's defense.

You my friend have absolutely no room to be calling anyone a nutthugger, you're holding onto Putin's sack like it's a life-preserver and make excuses for why it's letting you drown. It's past time for to face the reality that Putin is nothing but a self aggrandizing tyrant no better (and far worse than most) than any current world leader. You refuse to look at the reality of if you lived under Putin's thumb you would be in prison or dead for criticizing him the way you do the US.

Yeah, you are delusional or just gaslighting. Go throughout history. No regional power is going to allow an enemy to set up shop on their borders without addressing it. And no country is going to allow its people or people they identify with be attacked without doing something about it. You damn well know this, but again... either it is gaslighting or ignorance on your part. I'll let you decide.

 

[DonjoVol]

Literally no one believes that other than possibly you Curly as it is an absurd conclusion.

…

Ok I’m positive you believe that Curly.

Ukrainians are dying because asshat Pootin invaded their country and started killing them. It’s as simple as that.

That's BS. A few of the trolls on here, yourself possibly included, have made statements such as "Russians are getting killed and we aren't even sending our own troops to do it". So the statement I made is not absurd based on the posting history of the Ukrainian trolls here.

And by the way. You and two others responded to my statement when I mentioned trolls. So I'm glad to see you and two others actually admit to be trolls now. Thank you Proctor.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Having trouble reading today? I admit that we have done some reprehensible things over the last 2 centuries, several foreign military adventures that weren't justified but none of our past mistakes excuses Putin's unprovoked and unjustified invasion of Ukraine. Our sins do not excuse Putin's. I can admit that our skirts are far from clean, we have an ever increasing authoritarian and corrupt federal government and with everything we have to fix here we shouldn't be funding Ukraine's defense.

My outrage isn't directed at you admitting that we have done some wrong in the past (and present). I read and understand that perfectly loud and clear. What you fail to see is that you have no room to start throwing out these attacks on Russia when you know good and damn well (if you can be intellectually honest for 30 seconds) that since the fall of the USSR, no country on the planet can hold a candle to the mayhem and chaos and invading that the United States has done. And it is pretty silly for any American to open their d**ksucker and call any other country a totalitarian regime or invader or terrorist state when the US has done the most in 30 plus years of manufacturing consent to spend blood and treasure on the other side of the globe. That's like Pol Pot throwing stones at a school shooter. You sound ridiculous.

 

[hog88]

Yeah, you are delusional or just gaslighting. Go throughout history. No regional power is going to allow an enemy to set up shop on their borders without addressing it. And no country is going to allow its people or people they identify with be attacked without doing something about it. You damn well know this, but again... either it is gaslighting or ignorance on your part. I'll let you decide.

WTF was "setting up shop" in Ukraine? Ukraine hadn't applied for NATO membership and NATO wouldn't have granted it had they applied. There was no threat to Russia in Ukraine, only an imagined one.

It's was Putin's fault people were getting killed in the Donbas. Had he not encouraged and armed the rebels there wouldn't have been a rebellion or at most a short lived one.

You are the one that's been gaslighted because unlike some of the other Puninistas in this thread I don't think you are ignorant.

 

[hog88]

My outrage isn't directed at you admitting that we have done some wrong in the past (and present). I read and understand that perfectly loud and clear. What you fail to see is that you have no room to start throwing out these attacks on Russia when you know good and damn well (if you can be intellectually honest for 30 seconds) that since the fall of the USSR, no country on the planet can hold a candle to the mayhem and chaos and invading that the United States has done. And it is pretty silly for any American to open their d**ksucker and call any other country a totalitarian regime or invader or terrorist state when the US has done the most in 30 plus years of manufacturing consent to spend blood and treasure on the other side of the globe. That's like Pol Pot throwing stones at a school shooter. You sound ridiculous.

I absolutely can call a spade a spade because I have spent plenty of time criticizing our government over the years.

 

[evillawyer]

 

[DonjoVol]

Absolutely no one but yourself is preventing you from making Pootin your lord and savior today Moe. Might as well formally instantiate your decades long hero worship from afar

I don't think Ras is a democrat. Therefore he has no reason to worship any politician.

 

[DonjoVol]

Democrats were the ones who erected Confederate statues.

 

[DonjoVol]

Pointing out hypocrisy is not whataboutism.

Whataboutism and their famous "non-sequitur" is the common tactic some in here use when they can't admit they lost a debate.
Of course I love using both terms to mock certain people in here. The funniest is when they use those terms after they already used at least a half dozen non sequiturs themselves lol.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I have yet to be hypocritical.

If you can pull for the stacking of bodies of Russians and Krauts for invading, then why don't you keep that same energy for the stacking of American bodies since we are presently in Syria? That is what makes you a hypocrite, genius.

The difference between me and you is that I think wars should be avoided through the use of diplomacy. But many people don't seem to want to use diplomacy with Russia, China, Iran, Venezuela, etc... or for that matter, Ukraine. Then of course the common theme is that being diplomatic to these "terrorists" is tantamount to appeasing Hitler and you all fall back on that Neville Chamberlain "peace in out times" nonsense. The West doesn't have people today that are smart enough or honest enough to be diplomats, so I guess that may be a moot point, but certainly by now, it should be evident that instigating and provoking our enemies isn't a wise choice, either.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Russia is way worse off because at least Europe has the US, Russia has virtually no manufacturing capability.

Even if that is true (which it isn't), Russia is still a trading partner with China. China can fill in any gaps and deficiencies that Russia's manufacturing base has.

You can't sanction a country that has China as a trading partner. Russia will be fine. Russia will have heat this winter. Russians will eat this winter. Can those green clowns in Europe say the same?

 

[DonjoVol]

Even if that is true (which it isn't), Russia is still a trading partner with China. China can fill in any gaps and deficiencies that Russia's manufacturing base has.

You can't sanction a country that has China as a trading partner. Russia will be fine. Russia will have heat this winter. Russians will eat this winter. Can those green clowns in Europe say the same?

They are also trading partners with India and Pakistan. I'm also reading reports that Indonesia will also become a major trading partner. That's 3 countries with a population over 1.5 billion combined.

 

[hog88]

If you can pull for the stacking of bodies of Russians and Krauts for invading, then why don't you keep that same energy for the stacking of American bodies since we are presently in Syria? That is what makes you a hypocrite, genius.

The difference between me and you is that I think wars should be avoided through the use of diplomacy. But many people don't seem to want to use diplomacy with Russia, China, Iran, Venezuela, etc... or for that matter, Ukraine. Then of course the common theme is that being diplomatic to these "terrorists" is tantamount to appeasing Hitler and you all fall back on that Neville Chamberlain "peace in out times" nonsense. The West doesn't have people today that are smart enough or honest enough to be diplomats, so I guess that may be a moot point, but certainly by now, it should be evident that instigating and provoking our enemies isn't a wise choice, either.

No, it doesn't make me a hypocrite because we didn't invade Syria to conquer land or change a regime. We have a minimal force over there and I will again vote against the people keeping them there. Plus the US soldier is my team, I'll never root for our soldiers to be killed. Ukrainians killing Russian invaders is admirable.

There's a helluva lot more differences than that between us and you really missed the mark on that one. The biggest difference between you and me is I don't worship any world leader and will pointout any of their faults and their corruption, you need to let go of Putin's sack for just a minute and look at his reign objectively for once.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Common sense if you support russian world domination, not if you're pro democracy/US.

Is the US pro-democracy?

And LOL at Russian world domination. They can barely beat the Ukrainians based on what you guys have been saying. How can you guys claim on the one hand that Russia is a weak paper tiger, but they need to be stopped because they are going to take over the world?

Also, in 2022, lets look and compare the number of Russian military assets that are scattered across the globe and compare that to the United States. You guys do not even try to sound intelligent.