War in Ukraine

[Velo Vol]

 

[LouderVol]

We will see how much crow will be on the menu for you in the next week or so once this Kharkiv offensive is neutralized.

Uh. If it comes to a stop now it is still a pretty big victory for Ukraine. Bigger than I had assumed, but I thought it was going to be small. I am still not sure if it changes the game, but this is still a pretty clear victory.

And it flies in the face of the Russian assumptions that Ukraine had lost over or near 100k men which would have been +20% of their total. This is a very effective offensive if you assume those previous casualties were correct.

If they are correct then Russia should have no problem retaking the land and then some with the casualties the Ukrainians are taking. I am sure the russians will claim another 100k dead from this offensive which would be 40% of the total which would leave Ukraines front line barren.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Other than using nukes Russia has proven that they are incapable of expanding the conflict outside of Ukraine. Europe should be paying for Ukraine's defense, not us.

At the rate things are going, why would they need to expand it? The longer this goes on, the Europeans will suicide themselves. They are running low on military assets, they are deindustrializing and have no ability to sustain a war effort and they are going to spend the foreseeable future deciding on if they should throw what few resources they have at either eating or heating.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

It is when you’re not calling out your own issues and just deflecting.

What issues need calling out? Entertain me.

 

[BreatheUT]

Ukraine = New Afghan War? The US is basically funding it.

 

[NorthDallas40]

 

[tvolsfan]

What issues need calling out? Entertain me.

Trying to annex Ukraine, interfering in other country’s elections, lack of democracy, extensive corruption, etc.

 

[NorthDallas40]

What issues need calling out? Entertain me.

You completely ignoring Russia’s violating the Budapest Memorandum for starters. None of this exists if Russia keeps their word. No don’t bother with your “Butwhatabout..,” reply that’s exactly the point. They are responsible for their own actions.

You completely ignoring Russia fomenting the civil unrest in Donbass and literally arming the resistance for another. Again don’t bother with the “Butwhatabout…” because again Russia created the entire situation leading up to the invasion

For a third you ignore that the Ukraine parliament used their rightful powers to remove Yanukovych while still pushing this “coup coup coup…” dumbassery. Yanukovych was held accountable for his actions by the parliament of the country he was elected yo lead. That’s the whole story. Where does Yanukovych live now by the way Moe?

 

[Velo Vol]

Trying to annex Ukraine, interfering in other country’s elections, lack of democracy, extensive corruption, etc.

Imagine @Rasputin_Vol's shrieks if America did this.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/russia-laws-ukraine-invasion-war-critics-1.6382168

 

[hog88]

The point is that you look ridiculous and hypocritical saying anything about Russia when the US has done more invading of sovereignty countries and his heading down the path of tyranny far faster than Russia.

You guys act like Putin is Hitler or Mao, while screaming at the top of your lungs how good and virtuous America (allegedly) is.

Putin helped to bring back the Russian Orthodox church after 70+ years of communism. Is America seeing a revival in the church right now or are we a hedonistic and demonic country right now? Putin actually has helped to create a real domestic economy and has then essentially energy independent. Can the United States make that claim? In Putin's Russia, there are only 2 genders. Can you goofy American nuthuggers make that same claim?

In my lifetime, going back to Nixon, I would trade Putin for most of the POTUSs we had outside of Reagan and Trump. And depending on what day it is, I might even prefer him over Trump. Any attack you level at Putin can be equally leveled at the majority of the clowns we had on Pennsylvania Avenue. You all are just to dumb or bigoted to see the truth.

So it just another whataboutism post? If it makes you feel better I agree that we as a country have done some really bad ****.

Having trouble reading today? I admit that we have done some reprehensible things over the last 2 centuries, several foreign military adventures that weren't justified but none of our past mistakes excuses Putin's unprovoked and unjustified invasion of Ukraine. Our sins do not excuse Putin's. I can admit that our skirts are far from clean, we have an ever increasing authoritarian and corrupt federal government and with everything we have to fix here we shouldn't be funding Ukraine's defense.

You my friend have absolutely no room to be calling anyone a nutthugger, you're holding onto Putin's sack like it's a life-preserver and make excuses for why it's letting you drown. It's past time for to face the reality that Putin is nothing but a self aggrandizing tyrant no better (and far worse than most) than any current world leader. You refuse to look at the reality of if you lived under Putin's thumb you would be in prison or dead for criticizing him the way you do the US.

 

[hog88]

Pointing out hypocrisy is not whataboutism.

I have yet to be hypocritical.

 

[hog88]

At the rate things are going, why would they need to expand it? The longer this goes on, the Europeans will suicide themselves. They are running low on military assets, they are deindustrializing and have no ability to sustain a war effort and they are going to spend the foreseeable future deciding on if they should throw what few resources they have at either eating or heating.

Russia is way worse off because at least Europe has the US, Russia has virtually no manufacturing capability.

 

[jvol1]

Other than using nukes Russia has proven that they are incapable of expanding the conflict outside of Ukraine. Europe should be paying for Ukraine's defense, not us.

I tend to see Russian failure in ukraine as a tactic more than essential ineptitude of the russians. Preventing the conflict from spreading has a greater value, and if the conflict does spread we would have send the resources anyway on worse terms.

 

[jvol1]

Here is another delusional and insane post. He are making to case for Europe to have zero involvement and for the US to be 100% involved. That is totally out of phase with common sense and logic.

Common sense if you support russian world domination, not if you're pro democracy/US.

 

[hog88]

I tend to see Russian failure in ukraine as a tactic more than essential ineptitude of the russians. Preventing the conflict from spreading has a greater value, and if the conflict does spread we would have send the resources anyway on worse terms.

Other than nuclear war, Russia can't spread the conflict.

 

[LouderVol]

The US did not have justification for many of these invasions. At least Russia waited 8 years before going in to save the people in Donbas and address the NATO threat on their border. Hell, we can't even get the US to GAF about its own southern border, yet we are being drained of billions trying to worry about Ukraine's border. Stupid as hell.

As if nothing hasnt justified our actions.

Iraq 1, was a UN force after they took Kuwait. And you better not look at Russias role in Iraq, they were arming them, and you know what that means.
Iraq 2 was the US waiting 12 years on Saddam to stop effing around. Far longer than Russia's twelve.

Vietnam was a civil war, like Ukraine, that had been going on for decades, far longer than Russia's 8. And someone will have to remind me where the Vietnamese were getting all those AKs.

The Panamian President and Grenada invasion were part of a centuries old Monroe Doctrine, again far longer than Russias 8.

Panama's President was 10 years after we signed over the Panama Canal, and about 7 years after they broke said treaty regarding continued US access, sound familiar? So at least on par with Russia, especially considering the relative involvement.

Grenada involved some US citizens, not just ethnic Americans, it also involved several invitations from involved parties, so like Russian intervention in Syria. And involved a tiny deployment compared to what is going on in Ukraine.

Afghanistan we were attacked. Your only argument here is that we should have also invaded Saudi Arabia. And that's not a consistent argument for you, but thats never stopped you before. This would a Chechnaya for Russia.

Syria was spill over from Iraq, and we were joining the freedom fighters just like Russia did with Dontesk.

Libya was straight up BS.

Never really looked into the Sebia situation but my understanding is NATO member called up the alliance during a civil war that trickled into other countries in the area.

I know I am missing some others, so let's just throw them in the BS category. But they are small compared to what is happening in Ukraine. And at worst on par with Russias involvement in Iraq, Syria, Armenia, Georgia, Moldova, Afghanistan, Chechnaya 1 & 2, Azerbaijan.

And that doesnt include any and all of their involvement in conflicts leading up to the break up of the USSR in Eastern Europe. They did their fair share of putting down autonomous people movements in the 70s and 80s.

This also just considers Africa a wash, including the times when the US and USSR backed the same side.

 

[hog88]

Common sense if you support russian world domination, not if you're pro democracy/US.

If you were pro US you wouldn't be for us printing money we don't have to send it overseas.

 

[tvolsfan]

Zelensky’s “Without You” statement is pretty epic. It will undoubtedly be iconic if Ukraine wins this war.

 

[evillawyer]

 

[LouderVol]

But that is not the whole story, the "their border" is only a thing because of the prior agreements... that is the only reason the Ukraine even exists in its current state. I mean is the United States in its own border with that base down in Cuba? I think the Cubans disagree.

The United States or their citizens criticizing what other countries do with their border or warfare is kind of funny and sad at the same time.

Any country speaking about any other countries borders is funny.

How Russian was Konisgberg in 45?

 

[LouderVol]

Only if they comply with other parts of the agreement which Russia doesn't believe it being complied with and has said so for about 20 years. Either way, its their problem, not ours.

Cuba had no agreements with the United States, and the United State had a naval blockade. LOL

Uh yes they did. They signed a 100 year lease in 1903 after we gave them their independence from Spain. And the CMC happened well before 2003. Since then?

 

[LSU-SIU]

Any country speaking about any other countries borders is funny.

How Russian was Konisgberg in 45?

I think you're trying way too hard. There isn't anything complex about any of this. There is no reason for people to have crocodile tears, you don't really care. Not really.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Uh yes they did. They signed a 100 year lease in 1903 after we gave them their independence from Spain. And the CMC happened well before 2003. Since then?

Yes, an agreement which Cuba disputes, sounds familiar? Geez man. In the meantime, the United States blockaded the country, and threatened it with invasion. And have tried to install their own puppet regime in there for 60 years.

At the end of the day, the United States has done all of this and more for many decades, heck a half century or more. LOL

Anyone can justify anything. You are trying way too hard, imo.

 

[LouderVol]

Why is annexation the stipulation? The very fact that we invaded these areas is the point.

And LOL at you not having any kind of historical knowledge about "Ukraine". Outside of the past 30 years and briefly after WWI, there was no such thing as "Ukraine". Those lands have been under Russian or Soviet control since the days of Catherine the Great.

LSU's entire argument is that same 30 years of Russian foreign policy regarding Ukraine. How long does a country have to exist to be valid?

And considering how off again on again you are on the Russia=Soviet Union, Ukraine was a republic of the USSR just like Russia was. And Russias current borders were only established in 1956 with the annexation of about a dozen or more different soviet republics. Heck they didnt even claim most of their Pacific coast until the 1800s.

 

[LouderVol]

The best way to save the lives of troops is to not send them into harms way, genius. Obviously, the US GAF about US lives far less than even you want to admit.


Russia is fighting an existential threat on their border. The Obama State Department overthrew the democratically elected leader there in 2014 and established a govt in Kyiv that would be friendly to allowing NATO troops on Russia's doorsteps... not to mention the 8 years of Kyiv attacks on the people of Donbas. I wouldn't expect the US to sit idly by and allow Cuba or Mexico to join a military alliance with Russia or China, so why in the hell do you think Russia would allow the same on their border? And the US wouldn't stand for Americans living in Mexico to be attacked for 8 years, so why are you criticizing the Russians for doing the same?

I'm not sure if some of you take these hypocritical positions because you're just plain stupid or if you just have a visceral hatred of Russia/Russian people. And as I think about it, by you guys supporting Ukrainians being used as cannon fodder, I'm not so sure if you GAF about Ukrainians.

Yanukovich was elected because he ran on promises of closer ties to the West. Clearly it was the Russians that bought him.