War in Ukraine

#69,556
#69,556
Hunerwadel said:
OK, does anyone know how an advancing infantry in open country overcomes these "Dragon Teeth" defenses?

View attachment 566145
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Those are concrete pyramids sitting on the ground, without any part of them being buried.

They aren't 'dragon's teeth' so much as they are 'cope cones'.

A tank with a dozer blade will push them right out of the way.
1690575155547.png
 
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#69,557
#69,557
Hunerwadel said:
OK, does anyone know how an advancing infantry in open country overcomes these "Dragon Teeth" defenses?

View attachment 566145
Click to expand...
dragon's teeth aren't designed for infantry. They are supposed to slow down/stop armor. if anything it provides some modicum of cover from direct fire in what is likely an otherwise open field.

as bearded showed, the teeth aren't close enough together to stop infantry, I suppose you could run barbed wire between/around them, but thats not how they are intended to be used.

most defenses aren't meant to completely stop/destroy an enemy these day, thats why you don't see physical walls. Most defenses are designed/intended to just slow down, hamper, and drain a little of the enemies strength/attention in dealing with them. Even the anti tank mines usually don't fully blow up a tank, but it will shred the tracks and some of their wheels, so the crew has to abandon the tank. but theoretically that doesn't "stop" the attack, its just a delay as those tracks can be fixed in the field if given a chance.

also thank you for this image, this is the best one I have seen showing an actual layout.
 
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#69,558
#69,558
LouderVol said:
dragon's teeth aren't designed for infantry. They are supposed to slow down/stop armor. if anything it provides some modicum of cover from direct fire in what is likely an otherwise open field.

as bearded showed, the teeth aren't close enough together to stop infantry, I suppose you could run barbed wire between/around them, but thats not how they are intended to be used.

most defenses aren't meant to completely stop/destroy an enemy these day, thats why you don't see physical walls. Most defenses are designed/intended to just slow down, hamper, and drain a little of the enemies strength/attention in dealing with them. Even the anti tank mines usually don't fully blow up a tank, but it will shred the tracks and some of their wheels, so the crew has to abandon the tank. but theoretically that doesn't "stop" the attack, its just a delay as those tracks can be fixed in the field if given a chance.

also thank you for this image, this is the best one I have seen showing an actual layout.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info. I was wondering more about the support vehicles that an advancing infantry needs. I understand that tanks with dozer blades can push them aside but it seams that tanks in that terrain without air support would be easy pickins'. Anyway an infantry cannot advance too far ahead of its support.
 
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#69,566
#69,566
Burhead said:



Wagner getting closer to the Suwalki gap. Not that I believe they’ll try anything but something to watch. Poland and Lithuania are considering closing down the border.
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So @Burhead... lets think this through for just one moment.

1. How many Wagner fighters are in Belarus right now? 5000? 9000? Is that really enough to do anything to threaten Poland and Lithuania to make a mad dash to Kaliningrad?
2. In the Donbas, Wagner had Russian provided armor, armillary and helicopters. They don't have that right now. At best, they are no more than a group of border guards or policemen or light infantry. Is this really something to lose sleep over?
3. Wouldn't an incursion by Wagner be an outright attack on NATO? Do you really think Putin wants that right now anymore than NATO does?

I know how excited and giddy you guys were in the June 23rd-24th drama and I tried to calm you guys down, but at the very least, can you not agree that some of this hand wringing by Poland and the Baltics is exaggerated?

Unless Wagner gets resupplied with the same equipment that they had in Donbas, the most they will do is counter an incursion by Polish/Baltic troops in Western Ukraine (or hopefully the less likely scenario of going to Belarus).
 
#69,567
#69,567
Rasputin_Vol said:
So @Burhead... lets think this through for just one moment.

1. How many Wagner fighters are in Belarus right now? 5000? 9000? Is that really enough to do anything to threaten Poland and Lithuania to make a mad dash to Kaliningrad?
2. In the Donbas, Wagner had Russian provided armor, armillary and helicopters. They don't have that right now. At best, they are no more than a group of border guards or policemen or light infantry. Is this really something to lose sleep over?
3. Wouldn't an incursion by Wagner be an outright attack on NATO? Do you really think Putin wants that right now anymore than NATO does?

I know how excited and giddy you guys were in the June 23rd-24th drama and I tried to calm you guys down, but at the very least, can you not agree that some of this hand wringing by Poland and the Baltics is exaggerated?

Unless Wagner gets resupplied with the same equipment that they had in Donbas, the most they will do is counter an incursion by Polish/Baltic troops in Western Ukraine (or hopefully the less likely scenario of going to Belarus).
Click to expand...
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#69,568
#69,568
Rasputin_Vol said:
So @Burhead... lets think this through for just one moment.

1. How many Wagner fighters are in Belarus right now? 5000? 9000? Is that really enough to do anything to threaten Poland and Lithuania to make a mad dash to Kaliningrad?
2. In the Donbas, Wagner had Russian provided armor, armillary and helicopters. They don't have that right now. At best, they are no more than a group of border guards or policemen or light infantry. Is this really something to lose sleep over?
3. Wouldn't an incursion by Wagner be an outright attack on NATO? Do you really think Putin wants that right now anymore than NATO does?

I know how excited and giddy you guys were in the June 23rd-24th drama and I tried to calm you guys down, but at the very least, can you not agree that some of this hand wringing by Poland and the Baltics is exaggerated?

Unless Wagner gets resupplied with the same equipment that they had in Donbas, the most they will do is counter an incursion by Polish/Baltic troops in Western Ukraine (or hopefully the less likely scenario of going to Belarus).
Click to expand...


Wagner still has heavy equipment and convoys have entered Belarus since the transfer of Wagner to Belarusian territory. I think if Wagner did cross the border both NATO and Russia would agree that they were acting outside of state approval and would give the Kremlin an option to wipe their hands of them. As I said I really don't think anything is going to happen with Wagner and Poland or the Baltic's. Potentially I could see a scenario where Wagner maybe tries to make a play to cut the transfer of arms on the border of Ukraine/Poland but even then I don't think that is realistic.
 
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#69,569
#69,569
Rasputin_Vol said:
So @Burhead... lets think this through for just one moment.

1. How many Wagner fighters are in Belarus right now? 5000? 9000? Is that really enough to do anything to threaten Poland and Lithuania to make a mad dash to Kaliningrad?
2. In the Donbas, Wagner had Russian provided armor, armillary and helicopters. They don't have that right now. At best, they are no more than a group of border guards or policemen or light infantry. Is this really something to lose sleep over?
3. Wouldn't an incursion by Wagner be an outright attack on NATO? Do you really think Putin wants that right now anymore than NATO does?

I know how excited and giddy you guys were in the June 23rd-24th drama and I tried to calm you guys down, but at the very least, can you not agree that some of this hand wringing by Poland and the Baltics is exaggerated?

Unless Wagner gets resupplied with the same equipment that they had in Donbas, the most they will do is counter an incursion by Polish/Baltic troops in Western Ukraine (or hopefully the less likely scenario of going to Belarus).
Click to expand...


Under the current circumstances if Wagner even steps a toe on to Polish territory we have to smack them.
 
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#69,571
#69,571
lawgator1 said:
Under the current circumstances if Wagner even steps a toe on to Polish territory we have to smack them.
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There’s no need for that Poland would love nothing more than to kill a bunch of idiot Russians trying to impinge on their sovereignty. They would handle it alone. It isn’t our business unless things get blown out of proportion and they start talking article 5
 
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#69,572
#69,572
Burhead said:
Wagner still has heavy equipment and convoys have entered Belarus since the transfer of Wagner to Belarusian territory. I think if Wagner did cross the border both NATO and Russia would agree that they were acting outside of state approval and would give the Kremlin an option to wipe their hands of them. As I said I really don't think anything is going to happen with Wagner and Poland or the Baltic's.
Click to expand...
By "heavy equipment", do you mean personnel carriers?

No matter, there is no way 5k-9k Wagnerites are a legit threat to Poland and Lithuania, any more than they would have been a threat to a city the size of Moscow.

Burhead said:
Potentially I could see a scenario where Wagner maybe tries to make a play to cut the transfer of arms on the border of Ukraine/Poland but even then I don't think that is realistic.
Click to expand...
The Russians haven't done it up to now outside of missile strikes to Western Ukrainian targets. I don't see the Russians needing to cross that obvious trip wire where they would cross a NATO border.
 
#69,573
#69,573
Rasputin_Vol said:
So @Burhead... lets think this through for just one moment.

1. How many Wagner fighters are in Belarus right now? 5000? 9000? Is that really enough to do anything to threaten Poland and Lithuania to make a mad dash to Kaliningrad?
2. In the Donbas, Wagner had Russian provided armor, armillary and helicopters. They don't have that right now. At best, they are no more than a group of border guards or policemen or light infantry. Is this really something to lose sleep over?
3. Wouldn't an incursion by Wagner be an outright attack on NATO? Do you really think Putin wants that right now anymore than NATO does?

I know how excited and giddy you guys were in the June 23rd-24th drama and I tried to calm you guys down, but at the very least, can you not agree that some of this hand wringing by Poland and the Baltics is exaggerated?

Unless Wagner gets resupplied with the same equipment that they had in Donbas, the most they will do is counter an incursion by Polish/Baltic troops in Western Ukraine (or hopefully the less likely scenario of going to Belarus).
Click to expand...
Putin has no control over Wagner, anyway they don't exist anymore as a fighting unit remember.... Putin assured us of this.


LOL, just read the past of this post.... You really do think Putin Is in control of Prigozhin and this was a coordinated effort.......... That's cute


The only way they are a threat is if they decide to switch tactics to guerilla warfare. I believe this is what they are afraid of, them entering the EU and causing issues.
 
#69,575
#69,575


Not just Poland that is massively rearming. Lithuania plans to establish a division sized unit in the near future and will become the first Baltic state to operate tanks after alerting Germany they intend to buy 54 Leopard 2s. What is interesting to me is that South Korea is getting in on the spending spree a lot of European countries are deciding to purchase South Korean made equipment.
 
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