War in Ukraine

[utvolpj]

Democrats set up clash with GOP by Pairing Covid relief with Ukraine aid

(CNN) Democrats and Republicans on Capitol Hill are set for a showdown over Covid-19 relief that threatens to hold up desperately needed aid to Ukraine as the country fights back against Russia's invasion.

House Democrats plan to introduce a massive bill as soon as Tuesday that would extend government funding through the end of September -- and include roughly $10 billion to help bolster Ukraine, according to two Democratic sources. But they are setting up a clash with Republicans over Covid relief money expected to be included in the sweeping package.

Negotiations will take place this week to try to secure a deal to pass the bill before a March 11 deadline when government funding expires. Lawmakers are expected to avoid a shutdown, but if a broad funding package doesn't move quickly, they may be forced to pass another short-term stopgap funding measure.

Democrats set up clash with GOP by pairing Covid relief with Ukraine aid - CNNPolitics

Covid is done and Ukraine can get free money from Europe. Shut them both down

 

[kiddiedoc]

He's referring to my comments about some hospitals and medical facilities not giving (or allowing) patients that they admitted were dying and they couldn't do anything for, to take ivermectin or leave the hospital and get treatment at other facilities.

I said at one time that the people that made the decision to let those people rot and die without giving them a last gasp/Hail Mary of Ivermectin needed to be arrested/shot/burn in hell/etc...

We don't need to discuss it further in this thread, but the lack of offering early, safe treatment options combined with the utter incompetence of the current admin getting monoclonal antibodies and antivirals distributed is almost certainly responsible for hundreds of thousands of American deaths.

So, I guess I kind of agree with you.

 

[AM64]

Proper response from NATO should be

You know, that might make sense if Russian planes were only flying missions from Ukrainian soil. If Russian pilots are flying from bases outside Ukraine, then why shouldn't Ukrainian forces be allowed the same advantage. Particularly since Russia is the aggressor/invader.

 

[kiddiedoc]

Watching innocent civilians being slaughtered immediately involve the viewer.

That's like walking down the sidewalk, seeing a couple of guys beating an old lady, and doing nothing because it didn't involve you. Once you see it, you're involved.........like it or not.

Holy crap. Do you have any idea what goes on in the rest of the world?

If we were somehow responsible for handling all the situations around the world where innocent people are being killed, we'd need 10x the military we currently have. Oh, and we might want to start within our own borders....

This is a terrible crisis, and I pray for the people of Ukraine. But, don't think for a second that we wouldn't all be brought to tears if the news showed us all the atrocities currently happening in other areas.

 

[LittleVol]

Watching innocent civilians being slaughtered immediately involve the viewer.

That's like walking down the sidewalk, seeing a couple of guys beating an old lady, and doing nothing because it didn't involve you. Once you see it, you're involved.........like it or not.

No.

If those same thugs that are beating on the old lady show you a live feed of 5 other men with assault rifles aimed at your family, and tells you if you even look at us beat on this old lady you'll watch your family die.

What do you do then?

 

[Burhead]

The West has sent over 17,000 anti-tank weapons into Ukraine since the conflict started.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I don't care. Let's say the US, UK, France, and Poland.

Why the US?

 

[tbh]

MAD still exists. If Putin launches missiles, he and all his advisors know one thing for certain: MIRVs will be incoming. Everyone dies.

Agree on our untested defense btw.

 

[Franklin Pierce]

Innocent Victims Slaughtered by Putin: The moment Ukrainian parents rush Dying 18-month-old Boy to Hospital after He was Hit by Russian Shelling - as Artillery Also Wipes Out Mother, Her Two Children and Five Others while world watches in Horror

• Devastating images laid bare the horror of Russia's invasion of Ukraine as families attempt to flee country

This is the moment the grieving Ukrainian parents of an 18-month-old boy rushed into hospital weeping over their son's dead body after the toddler was killed by Russian shelling - as Putin's invading forces spent another day shelling Ukrainian civilians yesterday killing at least eight.

The 18-month-old boy named Kirill was fatally wounded in the the southern city of Mariupol after Russian forces shelled Ukraine's second city just minutes into an agreed ceasefire on Saturday.

Kirill's devastated mother Marina Yatsko and her boyfriend Fedor were later seen grieving as they embraced their son's lifeless body laid out on a stretcher in the besieged city.

GRAPHIC CONTENT:
The innocent victims slaughtered as they tried to flee Ukraine | Daily Mail Online

 

[AM64]

Not soley responsible. Imposition of a no fly zone is an act of aggression so we would share the responsibility..

So if an aggressor like Russia decides to take over it's neighbor, the rest of the world should just stand by and wring their hands? Then when Russia has picked off one they can move to another, and so on until there's nobody left? Seems like we've seen this act before, and it didn't go well the first time when an aggressor was given free rein. Seems like there was a term ... appeasement; and the guy who thought it reasonable didn't fare that well in history books ... and the world in general did worse.

 

[OrangeTsar]

It would put US/ NATO military in combat with the Russians. No thank you. I am not interested in escalating this. Keep pounding with sanctions. If he gets any nastier cut off all oil/natural gas purchases. That's the next escalation move for us.

Right, we ain’t Slim Pickens thankfully

 

[Franklin Pierce]

Former UN Ambassador Nikki Haley claims Biden's Afghan exit debacle and the Nord Stream 2 Pipeline are to blame for emboldening Putin to invade Ukraine: Says it is 'lunacy' to Continue to Buy Russian oil

• In an interview with FOX Business' Maria Bartiromo on Sunday, former UN Ambassador Nikki Haley slammed Joe Biden's leadership

Nikki Haley, former United Nations ambassador for the U.S., slammed President Joe Biden's leadership in the Ukraine conflict on Sunday and said it's 'absolute lunacy' the country continues to buy Russian oil after Vladimir Putin launched an invasion last month.

In an interview with FOX Business' Maria Bartiromo on Sunday Morning Futures, Haley said the United States never should have trusted Russia or Putin.

'This all happened because of us,' the former South Carolina governor said.

'
'This happened by falling all over himself by getting the Iran deal,' she added.

'Now, we need strength and deterrence and we're not getting it.'

Instead, she said, it is time for the president to 'stop reacting and start leading.'

Former UN Ambassador Nikki Haley SLAMS Biden's leadership as war in Ukraine drags on | Daily Mail Online
'

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Uhhh... OK. So the Afghans beat the Russians...

 

[AM64]

Never to late to negotiate.
Now what was Russia's justification for invading Ukraine again?

What does a hostage have to negotiate with. Face it; if you won't act for fear of a nuclear strike, you are a hostage. Remember a guy named Martin Niemöller?

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist

Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist

Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist

Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew

Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

 

[evillawyer]

I think this is more than the US lost during all of the Iraq fiasco.

 

[LittleVol]

So if an aggressor like Russia decides to take over it's neighbor, the rest of the world should just stand by and wring their hands? Then when Russia has picked off one they can move to another, and so on until there's nobody left? Seems like we've seen this act before, and it didn't go well the first time when an aggressor was given free rein. Seems like there was a term ... appeasement; and the guy who thought it reasonable didn't fare that well in history books ... and the world in general did worse.

Very valid points.

However, putin is willing to continue to call bluffs while at the same time seem like he is willing to negotiate even as he gains momentum.

This guy hates the west.
Even if he had the worlds endorsement to reconstitute the Soviet Union in whatever ways he wished....

He would still order a Nuclear attack on the United States with his last dying breath...

He wants to rule Mother Russia until he till his last days and then launch every nuke he has at America, hoping for himself to die in the process...

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Nazis explaining their goals and who is sponsoring them...

 

[kiddiedoc]

I keep seeing this video clip of Ukrainian soldiers firing their AKs at a fighter jet 5000+ feet in the sky.

They aren't going to win.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I keep seeing this video clip of Ukrainian soldiers firing their AKs at a fighter jet 5000+ feet in the sky.

They aren't going to win.

You need to start asking yourself... if you know they spread propaganda and BS during COVID, what makes you think they are not doing the same thing right now? And for that matter, should I trust the narrative they are telling me (Russia/Putin bad, Ukraine good)? Or is it a bit more complex and nuanced than that, at best, or is the narrative they are telling an out right lie.

Put your thinking cap on...

 

[volfanhill]

You need to start asking yourself... if you know they spread propaganda and BS during COVID, what makes you think they are not doing the same thing right now? And for that matter, should I trust the narrative they are telling me (Russia/Putin bad, Ukraine good)? Or is it a bit more complex and nuanced than that, at best, or is the narrative they are telling an out right lie.

Put your thinking cap on...

Lol. Do you think Putin and Russia don't constantly pump propaganda? You have no thinking cap. You accept their narrative as fact...every...single...time

 

[AM64]

Very valid points.

However, putin is willing to continue to call bluffs while at the same time seem like he is willing to negotiate even as he gains momentum.

This guy hates the west.
Even if he had the worlds endorsement to reconstitute the Soviet Union in whatever ways he wished....

He would still order a Nuclear attack on the United States with his last dying breath...

He wants to rule Mother Russia until he till his last days and then launch every nuke he has at America, hoping for himself to die in the process...

You can't negotiate from a position of weakness, and we are showing ourselves as to be a weak nation - a lot of that due to poor leadership. Russia has had nukes pointed at us for most of my lifetime - I'm 76. The funny thing is that my generation has been often criticized for the weakness and selfishness of the following generations. Yet we weren't the ones willing to roll over because the other guy is threatening us. I agree with Ras and others that we shouldn't have been dabbling in wars across the globe as a general rule, but there are times that you have to have a backbone. That generally comes down to Russia and China when they act as aggressors in the foreseeable future. No, it isn't up to us alone - that's why we are part of NATO and should be part of an Asian pact ... and supposedly the UN which is turning out to be pretty much worthless.

 

[EasternVol]

It would be full-on insane for Putin to open another front right now with NATO. He's already getting his ass whooped by just Ukraine.

And, oh by the way, Russia's financial world just fell off the edge of the planet. Oligarchs not happy.

Send the planes. Send the kitchen sink.

What is your current rank in the US military?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

You can't negotiate from a position of weakness, and we are showing ourselves as to be a weak nation

Neither can you call yourself negotiating and yet have Non-starters or unconditional terms. The time has come for the US to realize that we can't bully countries to bend to our will anymore. We have to be willing to have honest negotiations... that means compromising.

 

[volfanhill]

You can't negotiate from a position of weakness, and we are showing ourselves as to be a weak nation - a lot of that due to poor leadership. Russia has had nukes pointed at us for most of my lifetime - I'm 76. The funny thing is that my generation has been often criticized for the weakness and selfishness of the following generations. Yet we weren't the ones willing to roll over because the other guy is threatening us. I agree with Ras and others that we shouldn't have been dabbling in wars across the globe as a general rule, but there are times that you have to have a backbone. That generally comes down to Russia and China when they act as aggressors in the foreseeable future. No, it isn't up to us alone - that's why we are part of NATO and should be part of an Asian pact ... and supposedly the UN which is turning out to be pretty much worthless.

Respectfully you don't know how bad we have screwed them if you think our response has been weak. And before someone yells what about us buying gas from them, we need a point to negotiate. If you do this we do this.

 

[EasternVol]

So if an aggressor like Russia decides to take over it's neighbor, the rest of the world should just stand by and wring their hands? Then when Russia has picked off one they can move to another, and so on until there's nobody left? Seems like we've seen this act before, and it didn't go well the first time when an aggressor was given free rein. Seems like there was a term ... appeasement; and the guy who thought it reasonable didn't fare that well in history books ... and the world in general did worse.

That's a different question. There was a comment stating that world war as a result of a no fly zone conflict would be solely Putin's responsibility, hence my reply.
I'm no fan of appeasement but I'm also no fan of WWIII. At this point I don't think US war against Russia is a good idea. There are other ways to contain them.