Wars, genocide, reparations, religion, etc (split from recruiting forum)

#101
#101
bignewt said:
They also created major cities and civilizations in the Mississippi valley far before the Euros arrived. Their weakness to disease was the reason they lost their lands. Not because of any intelligence or fighting superiority.
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Thank you. This futher supports my statements that the natives weren't some warring savages. The old saying about those who forget history being condemned to repeat it hold true. I think revisionist history is even worse than forgetting it.
 
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#102
#102
bignewt said:
The Cherokee certainly did.

You are so defensive about not taking ownership for past atrocities. I don't think anyone is asking you to. As Glitch said it is our responsibility to learn and understand our history as it actually happened and make sure the injustice does not repeat itself.

Most of it was done in the name of God or some religion and thats the major problem but thats a whole nother ball of wax.
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I don’t think you understand how prevalent the self hatred is in the millennial/gen z demographic. and I can promise that a nation without god is far worse off than a nation with god.

Sidenote: the Cherokee “alphabet” was invented in the 1800’s lol
bigl3327 said:
They passed their history through stories from generation to generation as many cultures did. They also had their own languages, and while it seemed primitive to a more advanced civilization, they recorded historical events through art.
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And I’d imagine a lot of these stories were about wars between other tribes told in the form of myths about certain areas. That’s how Nahanni Valley became the headless valley, etc. I don’t know what you’re arguing here. They did fight among themselves frequently, and they didn’t have a writing system. Everything you’ve said to counter is unrelated.
 
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#103
#103
bigl3327 said:
History is and has always been written by those who were victorious. There were atrocities committed by every nation that conquered another to obtain their land and resources. I don't know where the "white devil" thing is coming from. I also don't know why we can't be honest and accept the good and the bad of historical data. Last I checked, none of our asses took part in any of it.
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So glad I found y’all so I can argue! Why is everything over here now? Anyway….

You’re right atrocities committed by all conquering nations. And history is written by the conquerors. But what is happening today is a rewriting of history as if all native Americans were peaceful nations that never collected any white scalps. Like you, I wish we could tell the whole story without creating angels and devils of races. Funny you should say that we didn’t take part in it. There are movements to make white people pay for what we did not do. They even have a word for it of course….reparations. Things commonly suggested are white people pay higher taxes which will be used for minorities housing, schools, etc. Another is that a large portion of property/wealth cannot be passed down to white children…because in FHA loans were given to more whites than blacks, etc. They even suggest that Americans be taxed to send funds to Africa because of the slaves brought here (no mention of slaves taken elsewhere or the fact it was a part of practically all nations at one time or another.). Another term they use is “redistribution of wealth.”
 
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#104
#104
SweetasSoda said:
So glad I found y’all so I can argue! Why is everything over here now? Anyway….

You’re right atrocities committed by all conquering nations. And history is written by the conquerors. But what is happening today is a rewriting of history as if all native Americans were peaceful nations that never collected any white scalps. Like you, I wish we could tell the whole story without creating angels and devils of races. Funny you should say that we didn’t take part in it. There are movements to make white people pay for what we did not do. They even have a word for it of course….reparations. Things commonly suggested are white people pay higher taxes which will be used for minorities housing, schools, etc. Another is that a large portion of property/wealth cannot be passed down to white children…because in FHA loans were given to more whites than blacks, etc. They even suggest that Americans be taxed to send funds to Africa because of the slaves brought here (no mention of slaves taken elsewhere or the fact it was a part of practically all nations at one time or another.). Another term they use is “redistribution of wealth.”
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You are sliding down a different slope but if you came into my lands and tried to take it if I were able I would scalp some fools too.

As for reparations, making a current generation pay for the past is ridiculous I agree. But we can also all be aware of other cultures/races prior plights and make sure we do not let it get repeated.
 
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#105
#105
Christian Lowe said:
I don’t think you understand how prevalent the self hatred is in the millennial/gen z demographic. and I can promise that a nation without god is far worse off than a nation with god.

Sidenote: the Cherokee “alphabet” was invented in the 1800’s lol

And I’d imagine a lot of these stories were about wars between other tribes told in the form of myths about certain areas. That’s how Nahanni Valley became the headless valley, etc. I don’t know what you’re arguing here. They did fight among themselves frequently, and they didn’t have a writing system. Everything you’ve said to counter is unrelated.
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Well thats on them. I think its just a reflex of prior generations just being blindly ignorant to it. Like most things, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

And I can promise you, nations without 'God' have done just fine and will continue to. Religion tears our humanity apart and gives governments a tool to brainwash their populance that there is an enemy to destroy or at least bend the knee to the one true God (theirs)
 
#106
#106
Christian Lowe said:
I don’t think you understand how prevalent the self hatred is in the millennial/gen z demographic. and I can promise that a nation without god is far worse off than a nation with god.

Sidenote: the Cherokee “alphabet” was invented in the 1800’s lol

And I’d imagine a lot of these stories were about wars between other tribes told in the form of myths about certain areas. That’s how Nahanni Valley became the headless valley, etc. I don’t know what you’re arguing here. They did fight among themselves frequently, and they didn’t have a writing system. Everything you’ve said to counter is unrelated.
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You said they didn't read or write. Was just responding that they did, doesn't really matter when it was developed.
 
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#107
#107
Crookruss said:
I sincerely hope that nobody on here is justifying or minimizing the way that the Native American Indian has been mistreated throughout modern history by the US government.
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No, don’t think so. But have not read it all.

Just pointing out they were not perfect humans that didn’t commit atrocities against each other. Just looking at history you can imagine what they would have done to whites if they had won the wars. The history of man is wars, conquest and conquerors. Hopefully we can learn from it and move forward.
 
#108
#108
SweetasSoda said:
No, don’t think so. But have not read it all.

Just pointing out they were not perfect humans that didn’t commit atrocities against each other. Just looking at history you can imagine what they would have done to whites if they had won the wars. The history of man is wars, conquest and conquerors. Hopefully we can learn from it and move forward.
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If you moved into my house by force and killed and rape my family, I am sure, my remaining family would find a way to do the same to you especially where there was no law like it was back in those days.. If you don't think so, you need to read some actual history.
 
#109
#109
bignewt said:
Well thats on them. I think its just a reflex of prior generations just being blindly ignorant to it. Like most things, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

And I can promise you, nations without 'God' have done just fine and will continue to. Religion tears our humanity apart and gives governments a tool to brainwash their populance that there is an enemy to destroy or at least bend the knee to the one true God (theirs)
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Bull sh*t. The worst atrocities by any government have taken place in atheist communist countries. The government takes away religion and replaces it with the altar of the state. Religion is the cure to government, not a tool of the government.

The Protestant reformation was quite literally born of such a need to knock the government down a peg.
bignewt said:
You said they didn't read or write. Was just responding that they did, doesn't really matter when it was developed.
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But it does, since most of the atrocities had occurred by the time someone developed it.
 
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#110
#110
SweetasSoda said:
So glad I found y’all so I can argue! Why is everything over here now? Anyway….

You’re right atrocities committed by all conquering nations. And history is written by the conquerors. But what is happening today is a rewriting of history as if all native Americans were peaceful nations that never collected any white scalps. Like you, I wish we could tell the whole story without creating angels and devils of races. Funny you should say that we didn’t take part in it. There are movements to make white people pay for what we did not do. They even have a word for it of course….reparations. Things commonly suggested are white people pay higher taxes which will be used for minorities housing, schools, etc. Another is that a large portion of property/wealth cannot be passed down to white children…because in FHA loans were given to more whites than blacks, etc. They even suggest that Americans be taxed to send funds to Africa because of the slaves brought here (no mention of slaves taken elsewhere or the fact it was a part of practically all nations at one time or another.). Another term they use is “redistribution of wealth.”
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These movements are among extremists, just like there are other movements by extremists in the opposite direction. None of these things are widely pursued by the majority. As far as reparations, somehow the concept has recently been grossly misrepresented. Originally, the freed slaves were promised 40 acres and a mule. That never happened. The issue now is how would you even measure that equivalent? You can't simply give that to every person of African heritage. There are millions more African Americans now than there would have been at the time. There are also many that were not the descendants of American slaves. Our country's history is ugly. No amount of money can change that. They have made an effort to compensate Native Americans financially though. I don't have the answers. I wish I did, but things have shifted to such extremes in many directions in our country right now. And those extremists are the loudest. Depending on where you choose to get your news sources from, they want everyone to be in fear of somebody else. It's really disgusting. My main reason for even joining this discussion was to point out that history should be taught in truth. The good, the bad, and the ugly. I personally have never wanted anyone to feel guilty or ashamed for the "sins of our fathers". At the same time, I think it's wrong to pretend as if it never happened. I just try to live everyday being the best person that I can be, but I also have to understand what being a good person entails to be able to do that.
 
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#114
#114
Ulysees E. McGill said:
Yeah...because they were all peace loving nature worshippers..
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They weren't, but they were here first. And I'm not sure the U.S. ever made a treaty that they kept with Native Americans. The Trail of Tears was a horror show. No reason to ignore our own atrocities of the past.
 
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#115
#115
Christian Lowe said:
And they killed 50,000 of us on the Bataan Death March.
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No, they didn't. The estimates on American deaths on the Bataan Death March are 500-650. Filipino death estimates range up to 18,000.

I think estimates for the Trail of Tears range up to 6,000 deaths.

History is ugly and filled with atrocities.
 
#116
#116
Christian Lowe said:
Because 1. the modern left does place ancestral blame on those living today. And 2. I don’t apply the morality of today to actions of the past. Literally everyone was evil if you try to look at it that way.

I don’t see how knowing how to harvest crops applies to reading or writing.
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Harvesting crops is much more essential to life than reading and writing.

But I share your belief we're not to blame for the sins of our ancestors. Doesn't mean we can't acknowledge those sins happened.
 
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#117
#117
Reparations for errybody!
Fact is no one nation is immune in this world. Just opens up rabbit holes.
 
#118
#118
Christian Lowe said:
Hell, to this day Japan denies the Rape of Nanking ever taking place.

Belgium had King Leopold II and the rubber plantations in the Congo.

African tribes sold their own people to foreigners.

Every powerful country on every continent is guilty of the same sins were told to hate ourselves for… and often these other nations were far worse.
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Many people make excuses for the sins of their country's past. You seem to be doing it here.
 
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#119
#119
We haven't even discussed the Japanese internment camps here in the U.S. during WWII.
 
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