What must be done to Unite the Country

#876
#876
AM64 said:
We've spent a lot of money on extremely expensive weapons system that do wear out, break, and with battle losses lose the necessary critical mass to sustain the attack. Cost for weapons systems doesn't necessarily equal staying power. In the last century we generally were prepared for a different war than the one we fought, so we had the wrong weapons and sort of made do with them, and it frequently didn't work. When we've had the ability to use weapons effectively (particularly airpower), congress has hamstrung their use with rules of engagement. If you don't have the ability to add by adapting to need, rebuild, and sustain the flow of expendables such as munitions, you are a dead duck.

If you believe that leaving an industrial economy behind is the natural progression, then I'll tell you it's a natural progression to failure.
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I’m not arguing that it is good or bad, just that it is inevitable. We enjoyed some great times in the 50s because we won WWII and 50 or 60% of the world’s manufacturing capacity was wiped out. We filled that vacuum. Now, other nations have recovered and/or evolved and our time as an industrial super power is over. Denying that reality is foolish.
 
#879
#879
AM64 said:
We've spent a lot of money on extremely expensive weapons system that do wear out, break, and with battle losses lose the necessary critical mass to sustain the attack. Cost for weapons systems doesn't necessarily equal staying power. In the last century we generally were prepared for a different war than the one we fought, so we had the wrong weapons and sort of made do with them, and it frequently didn't work. When we've had the ability to use weapons effectively (particularly airpower), congress has hamstrung their use with rules of engagement. If you don't have the ability to add by adapting to need, rebuild, and sustain the flow of expendables such as munitions, you are a dead duck.

If you believe that leaving an industrial economy behind is the natural progression, then I'll tell you it's a natural progression to failure.
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That is the definition of failure. Without a manufacturing base we're nothing other than over priced entities like Facebook, Google and Twitter. I'll say that Apple and Amazon actually create worth by manufacturing stuff. The "we create wealth by advertising" crew are worthless in my opinion.
 
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#880
#880
OHvol40 said:
I’m not arguing that it is good or bad, just that it is inevitable. We enjoyed some great times in the 50s because we won WWII and 50 or 60% of the world’s manufacturing capacity was wiped out. We filled that vacuum. Now, other nations have recovered and/or evolved and our time as an industrial super power is over. Denying that reality is foolish.
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You did not even understand his point. REM shut down due to regs, which we have to procure from China as an example. Denying it is foolish.

U.S. military comes to grips with over-reliance on Chinese imports | Reuters
 
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#881
#881
OHvol40 said:
I’m not arguing that it is good or bad, just that it is inevitable. We enjoyed some great times in the 50s because we won WWII and 50 or 60% of the world’s manufacturing capacity was wiped out. We filled that vacuum. Now, other nations have recovered and/or evolved and our time as an industrial super power is over. Denying that reality is foolish.
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No, believing that giving up your industrial base as progressive is the path to economic starvation and national impotence ... pretty much the same as other "progressive" concepts.
 
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#883
#883
AM64 said:
Maybe against drones.
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Question: The Hawk was SARH..correct? The missile is guided to the target by the ground base radar. Newer SAM's like PAC use ground guidance with terminal phase using maybe one or more of onboard radar, heat, or even gps guidance to overcome ECM. But of course the missile would have to have ECCM. Wonder the eventual apex number of countermeasures. I am awaiting ECCCM.
 
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#884
#884
VolStrom said:
That is the definition of failure. Without a manufacturing base we're nothing other than over priced entities like Facebook, Google and Twitter. I'll say that Apple and Amazon actually create worth by manufacturing stuff. The "we create wealth by advertising" crew are worthless in my opinion.
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Amazon manufactures nothing and most of Apple’s products are manufactured in the Far East Of those products claimed to be manufactured in the US many are just assembly plants of imported components
 
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#885
#885
OHvol40 said:
I understand the problem, I’m saying that longing for a reversal of our economic progression isn’t a solution.
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No..you dont understand the problem. Bet to your mind you thought "steel". You are one intellectual and know all about viruses and healthcare, economics, history, and now military procurement. Like a genius.
 
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#886
#886
AM64 said:
No, believing that giving up your industrial base as progressive is the path to economic starvation and national impotence ... pretty much the same as other "progressive" concepts.
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Believing that we should be an industrial society simply for the sake of having the befits of industry with considering that there is no market for American industry in the world economy is naive.
 
#887
#887
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#888
#888
hog88 said:
We should have never been in Vietnam and we should have stopped at Pyongyang in 1950.
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Think I agree but will have to make sure on the 2nd part. Some more real BS was that we ran 2 very effective campaigns called "linebacker1" and "linebacker2" where we carpet bombed the Hell out of the NVA ...really carpet bombed, as in try to level everything standing and kill every living thing over large areas...they worked so well that the powers that be decided that we had better never, ever do that again or we wouldn't have an enemy to fight....had to make sure the crooked bastards and all their buddies in the M.I.C. could make millions and millions in a prolonged ground war.

My former step-dad and my uncle both served in VN... my dad and pappaw were both stateside. Lots of crooked Americans with the blood of Americans on their hands. Most of which were just kids, also mostly poor. Never fails to piss me off
 
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#889
#889
Orangeburst said:
Question: The Hawk was SARH..correct? The missile is guided to the target by the ground base radar. Newer SAM's like PAC use ground guidance with terminal phase using maybe one or more of onboard radar, heat, or even gps guidance to overcome ECM. But of course the missile would have to have ECCM. Wonder the eventual apex number of countermeasures. I am awaiting ECCCM.
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Yes, with the ability to lock and guide on jamming from the target.
 
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#891
#891
Grand Vol said:
The Berry Amendment should have been expanded a decade ago to cover electronics.
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It makes the liberal feel good with no mining or drilling in the US, yet we have to get the raw material from a near peer who pollutes their own environment to an exponential degree. Thinking China is a developing nation says it all. Same with oil. Shut is down when we are net inpedendent and have to fight for ME oil. Effing stupid.
 
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#893
#893
OHvol40 said:
Believing that we should be an industrial society simply for the sake of having the befits of industry with considering that there is no market for American industry in the world economy is naive.
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Two basic points. How do you propose sustaining a service economy when government and overhead losses continually siphon wealth from the processes and with every transaction? How do you offset our decline as a power and the rise of the Chinese as a world power by sending our industry to China? We've been building their military might for several years now - a pretty stupid plan for national security.
 
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#894
#894
marcusluvsvols said:
Think I agree but will have to make sure on the 2nd part. Some more real BS was that we ran 2 very effective campaigns called "linebacker1" and "linebacker2" where we carpet bombed the Hell out of the NVA ...really carpet bombed, as in try to level everything standing and kill every living thing over large areas...they worked so well that the powers that be decided that we had better never, ever do that again or we wouldn't have an enemy to fight....had to make sure the crooked bastards and all their buddies in the M.I.C. could make millions and millions in a prolonged ground war.

My former step-dad and my uncle both served in VN... my dad and pappaw were both stateside. Lots of crooked Americans with the blood of Americans on their hands. Most of which were just kids, also mostly poor. Never fails to piss me off
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Bingo from my understanding. Could of wiped em out via the air and had them begging.. Guess the pols got too nervous about Russia and Hong Kong Fluey, who incidently hated the Vietnamese. No conicidence that Vietnam is pro US these days. CVN in Da Nang just this year.
 
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#896
#896
NEO said:
NAFTA does not nor has it ever impacted me personally.

It did impact many blue collar individual, which I am not. There is absolutely nothing wrong with blue collar but I have been wearing suits since I was 27.

Free wage is also a very broad topic.

The issue is we are bordered by a 3rd world nation who has a much lower wage base. This is why and the only reason why we are no longer a manufacturing based economy. If Mexico had the exact same pay rates that we do then these factories would still be here and we would still be a manufacturing country.

To prove my point is correct simply see why Japanese cars and German cars are built on US soil yet American is not for a large part.

Shipping cost outweigh gains to built in Asia as their base wages are very close to ours. Hence, they build in the US.

We build in Mexico solely due to wage rates. Nothing else.

This same principle applies to why GM and Nissan are building in TN and not California or Michigan and why Honda is built in OH near Marysville.

Free trade and depressed monetary value must both be discussed when one discussed exports and imports.
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Tariffs were addressing this, but not in the way most think. Mostly with China, but the reboot of NAFTA took care of local trade. *sigh* Now it is back to filling the swamp
 
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#897
#897
LouderVol said:
Wow. Someone who agrees with Ras. We did attack japan first by not selling them fuel to fund their war effort.
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It’s wasn’t “attacking” Japan to not sell them fuel anymore than not selling things to the Nazis. The Japanese were evil inhumane savages too
 
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#898
#898
Orangeburst said:
Interesting...seems like it would still be effective then
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I think very limited against agile, stealth targets, but probably still very effective against some larger drones and other aircraft. However, the older Hawk systems that I worked on were a mix of tubes and solid state. Almost all the radar chassis were tube type except for diodes, so they would be obsolete today. I never looked into the I-Hawk, but I'd assume it would be much more solid state except perhaps in the radar high voltage and transmitter stages.
 
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#899
#899
MontyPython said:
Mhmm. Do you buy health insurance? Car insurance? Home insurance? If yes, why? I mean with all your talent, why let the scum of the Earth drag you down?

By your rationale, if I am a great driver, why should I be forced to buy insurance? Answer: NOBODY'S PERFECT.

Socialist programs are generally good.
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Even these are not ideal. One, because some of these are mandated (auto insurance), and also, you don't have much of a choice with the insurance that employers provide.

The issue is the the govt coming in and mandating that you join this collective scheme they come up with.
 
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