What's best for the future of UT football: Dooley teams win or... (merged)

#276
#276
I think it boils down to three kind of people...1. The glass is half full 2. The glass is half empty 3. (which is my camp) hmm, my glass isn't full, *but I've got a few sips left* so, the waitress better get back with that sweet tea soon.
 
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#279
#279
jarvol said:
Coach Years Years Games Won Lost Tied Pct
(Student coached teams) 1891-93, 1896-97 5 23 12 11 0 .522
J.A. Pierce 1899-1900 2 14 9 4 1 .654
George Kelley 1901 1 8 3 3 2 .500
H.F. Fisher 1902-03 2 17 10 7 0 .588
S.D. Crawford 1904 1 9 3 5 1 .389
J.D. DePree 1905-06 2 18 4 11 3 .305
George Levene 1907-09 3 28 15 10 3 .589
Andrew A. (Alex) Stone 1910 1 9 3 5 1 .389
Z.G. Clevenger 1911-15 5 43 26 15 2 .628
John R. Bender 1916-20 3 27 18 5 4 .741
M.B. Banks 1921-25 5 45 27 15 3 .633
Robert R. Neyland 1926-34, 36-40, 46-52 21 216 173 31 12 .829
W.H. Britton 1935 1 9 4 5 0 .444
John Barnhill 1941-45 4 39 32 5 2 .846
Harvey Robinson 1953-54 2 21 10 10 1 .500
Bowden Wyatt 1955-62 8 82 49 29 4 .622
Jim McDonald 1963 1 10 5 5 0 .500
Doug Dickey 1964-69 6 65 46 15 4 .738
Bill Battle 1970-76 7 83 59 22 2 .723
Johnny Majors+ 1977-92 16 186 116 62 8 .645
Phillip Fulmer+ 1992-2008 17 204 152 52 0 .745
Lane Kiffin 2009 1 13 7 6 0 .538
Total (21 coaches) 112 1,169 783 333 53 .692

If you want to look since Neyland and 1926 then you have:

Since 1926 - 84 928 653 242 33 .721

The 3 best tenures ever were:
Neyland - .829
Barnhill - .846
Fulmer - .745

If you want to cherry pick those 3 tenures then you have:
Neyland, Barnhill, Fulmer 42 459 357 88 14 .793

So the best ever at UT is .793 which translates to 9.52 wins a year in a 12 year season. Since 1926 UT is .721 which translates to 8.65 wins per year and historically it is .692 which translates to 8.30 wins per year.

Some of you unrealistic peeps might want to end the delusional expectations.
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Bama historically is .712 (8.54 wins per year)
Notre Dame historically is .733 (8.8 wins per year)
USC historically is .706 (8.47 wins per year)

Even the country's very best programs have similar numbers because every program goes through cycles. You're basically saying a whole bunch of nothing. Tennessee is easily one of the top ten programs in the nation and, as such, should expect championships.
 
#280
#280
Tenacious D said:
You're wrong.

The NSD deadline was bearing down on everyone, including recruits - roster spots were quickly filling up elsewhere, and for all but a few of the recruits we signed, scholly's appeared to be in scarce supply - it wasn't as easy for them to jump ship as some may think.

If nothing else, you can credit X with first drawing, and then maintaining their interest in our program, right up until he left.

Finally, let's say that Hammy had offered to grant a full release to those 8 EE's - all, solely the fruit of X's efforts, and inarguably so - how many of them do you think DD would have convinced to stay?

Now, before you say, "All / most of them!" gently recall that Hammy refused to give them their release. You seem to think that DD was able to salvage them on the basis of his own wit / charm / southern euphamisms / coaching ability / etc., then why wasn't Mike Hamilton express a similiar confidence in his ability to do so, and simply released them?

The East Berliners were happy to be living under communist rule, and had no desire to go elsewhere, whatsoever. What a great mayor for having convinced them to stay. Behind that large retaining wall.
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Trying real hard to refrain from name calling.

I'm giving Kiffin ( the whole X thing is retarded ) credit for the 8 EE's.

Other than that, the class belongs to Dooley and staff...I have no clue how many would have stayed if granted a release, nor do I care to ponder it.

Of the guys that signed after being committed to UT prior to Kiffin left are; Pair, Palardy, Dixon and Fulton

So give Kiffin credit if you want, for 12 out of the 25 we signed.
 
#281
#281
oregonvol said:
And it's your right to assume that Hamilton did his job, and it's true that no one knows how it will play out. Believe me, I hope I'm 100% wrong about Dooley. But I feel it's important to go ahead and get the torches ready and light them as soon as we can, because we've already seen how long it takes to get rid of a coach here when we're mired in mediocrity (see Fulmer's last 5 or so years), and I don't really want to go through another 5 or so years of it before we get someone who can actually win.
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If he doesn't win, you will not see Dooley for 5 years. I give him 3 if he doesn't show marked improvement.

I also think that if Dooley is fired, Hamilton will be out the door behind him and we'll all be sweating the possibility of Phillip Fulmer - AD.

Just my guess if things don't go well...
 
#283
#283
VKAman said:
Bama historically is .712 (8.54 wins per year)
Notre Dame historically is .733 (8.8 wins per year)
USC historically is .706 (8.47 wins per year)

Even the country's very best programs have similar numbers because every program goes through cycles. You're basically saying a whole bunch of nothing. Tennessee is easily one of the top ten programs in the nation and, as such, should expect championships.
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UT fans need to accept the low part of the cycle since most of them were content with years of Fulmer medocrity and many still would have retained him to this day.
 
#284
#284
tvolsfan said:
I assume we're smart enough never to let Fulmer be AD.
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Never underestimate the power of rich old-school donors that long for the "good old days"....

Fulmer has the heart, but he's no where near the qualifications...
 
#285
#285
oregonvol said:
If 10 wins at UNC is mediocre, then what is 4-8 at La. Tech? "Disgustingly awful"?
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His record after 3 years at UNC was whopping 9-24-1 (1-10, 1-10, 6-4-1) . If we had hired Mack Brown at that stage of his career, you would be crying foul with him as well.
 
#287
#287
lol @ you gloom and doomers :post-4-1090547912:


Dooley is going to be great as our new HC. He's going to win alot of games and we'll quickly forget about the last handful of mediocre years...book it. GO DOOLEY! GO VOLS! WOOOOOOOOOOOT WOOOOOOOOOOOOT!!!!!!! :rock::rock::rock:
 
#288
#288
First&Tenn said:
Never underestimate the power of rich old-school donors that long for the "good old days"....

Fulmer has the heart, but he's no where near the qualifications...
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It won't happen. I'm pretty sure Bruce Pearl and Pat Summit would just hand in their letters of resignation on the spot.
 
#289
#289
UTVOL02 said:
lol @ you gloom and doomers :post-4-1090547912:


Dooley is going to be great as our new HC. He's going to win alot of games and we'll quickly forget about the last handful of mediocre years...book it. GO DOOLEY! GO VOLS! WOOOOOOOOOOOT WOOOOOOOOOOOOT!!!!!!! :rock::rock::rock:
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I hope you're right, but there is nothing to base that on.
 
#290
#290
jarvol said:
UT fans need to accept the low part of the cycle since most of them were content with years of Fulmer medocrity and many still would have retained him to this day.
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The low part of the cycle comes from hiring a bad coach. Since that's fixable, at least by the AD, it should never be acceptable...
 
#291
#291
jarvol said:
What part of PERCENTAGE does you math impaired ass not understand?
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Your funny, your Op was to point that UT is not worthy of the high expectation we as fans have...yet were number 9 in all-time wins, regardless of %...again, thanks for you daily comedy routine.
 
#292
#292
PayingUTKTuition said:
His record after 3 years at UNC was whopping 9-24-1 (1-10, 1-10, 6-4-1) . If we had hired Mack Brown at that stage of his career, you would be crying foul with him as well.
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Honestly, even after that he's not the best example. He is winning at a school with resources we don't have. If Dooley is like him as a coach, we will end up with a middle-of-the-pack SEC team...
 
#293
#293
PayingUTKTuition said:
His record after 3 years at UNC was whopping 9-24-1 (1-10, 1-10, 6-4-1) . If we had hired Mack Brown at that stage of his career, you would be crying foul with him as well.
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Of course, I would and so would Texas fans, and that's why no one hired him when he had such an awful record (though at least it was trending upward).
 
#295
#295
utmba93 said:
To say that there is some doubt about whether CDD can ever win a championship at UT is a gross understatement.

There's also doubt that he can ever win the SEC East.

Instead, many here and in other UT circles, feel the best he can do is win may 10 games in his third year at UT, but never any more than that. In the meantime, many concede that he will help recruiting, but that he can not recruit as well as CLK and company. So, even his recruiting upside is limited versus the trajectory we were on.

Before anyone starts claiming that I don't want to Vols to win, let me clarify in saying that we all want the Vols to win.

Yet, is winning and restoring 'mediocrity' at UT over the next 6 or 7 years better for the Vols program, or would simply seeing Dooley repeat his LA Tech record at UT over the next two years get a proven coach on the Hill faster?
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most idiotic comment i've read in a long time :crazy: this thread needs to die
 
#296
#296
Yall are looking for a coach to come in, win quickly (next 3-5), be a major player on the National scene as far as recruiting, compete for the top 3 position or better in the SEC overall, and win Bowl games that take place after January 1st. You got Dooley.

Would it have been better to hand it off to Kippy and go after a bigger fish next year? I dont know, thats 3 new coaches in three consecutive years.

The one thing you have for sure is a guy who will stay, and I think that, amoung all the other factors in this hire, was focused on the most. Dooley shouldnt burn Tennessee.

Hamilton went after guys that might could have pulled off what I stated above in that same time frame. They all turned him down. He went after guys that might could get yall close to those same goals. They too, turned him down. Like I said before, Kiffin leaving set yall back 3-5 years in a lot of aspects of College Football. Stability at the top leads the way to success. I hope that statement hold true, because thats the one thing I see Dooley bringing to the table. Stability.

But you and I both know being "competitive in the East" and "giving Bama a run for their money" aint gonna cut it. Yall want hardware, and soon, and rightfully so. Just keep in mind fellas, this aint your daddy's or grand daddy's Vols. You play in the toughest conference in the NCAA and have to recruit against some guys that are already 3-5 years ahead of you.

I wish em' all the best though.
 
#297
#297
oregonvol said:
Of course, I would and so would Texas fans, and that's why no one hired him when he had such an awful record (though at least it was trending upward).
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The point is, we do not know what we have with CDD. But he is the coach for now and I have bled orange for a long time. He has my support until he gives me a reason to pull it.
 
#299
#299
GahLee said:
Your funny, your Op was to point that UT is not worthy of the high expectation we as fans have...yet were number 9 in all-time wins, regardless of %...again, thanks for you daily comedy routine.
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All time wins is nice but not really that relevant due different timeframes that states, schools, and football programs were founded. Percentages help normalize data for the mathematically challenged hilljacks.
 
#300
#300
VKAman said:
The low part of the cycle comes from hiring a bad coach. Since that's fixable, at least by the AD, it should never be acceptable...
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The low part of UT's cycle stems from retaining a coach who underperfromed for years. It had nothing to do with a bad hire.
 
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