What's best for the future of UT football: Dooley teams win or... (merged)

[oregonvol]

Nothing? Well, let's see, he was extremely successful as a recruiter with LSU where they had 2 #1 classes and won a nat champ, Saban thought enough of him to take him to the NFL and wanted him at BAMA, he took a La Tech program that hadn't sniffed a bowl game in 30 years to one in year 2, he brought in 27 3star recruits in his 3 years there vs. 10 the previous 3 years, he was highly recommended by Muschamp, given praise by Saban, held our class together 19 days before signing day, added a handful of top recruits as well, hired some great coaches with tons of upside, kept 2 of our best recruiters/coaches on staff, he's young, aggressive, smart, highly educated, humble, etc... Nothing to base that on? I'd say there's quite a bit to base it on...

Damn, I was hoping that you were right about this, because it would have made me feel alot better about the hire. Unfortunately, it's pure fiction. La Tech won their conference and was in the Humanitarian Bowl in 2001.

The rest of your listed qualifications mean nothing to me. He was a highly regarded assistant? Well, there are alot of those around the country. He kept our recruiting class somewhat together? Well, that's decent but we were on our way to a top 5 class anyway, before Kiffin left, and our rivals got better classes, so it's still a step back. He's smart? educated? humble? Sounds like Buzz Peterson to me.

 

[GahLee]

Who said I don't like Dooley? I've said I think he'd be a great AD. He seems smart, presents himself well-enough, and, according to our current AD, is well-organized.

My concern is that he is incapable of winning championships and that should be the standard against which the HFC is judged.

It seems like Hamilton's stated goal for CPF was to win one every few years or so. I can't recall excactly, but something like that is the expectation for the UT football coach.

UT has 2 legit NT in over 100 years of football, expecting title is merely absurd.

 

[jarvol]

Shula didn't recruit that well. ESPN had his 2006 class at #18. Nick Saban coached up alot of Shula's guys.

Those rankings are only a very speculative projection.
Look at UT's highly ranked 2006 class and compare it to Bama's. Productivity isn't even close.

 

[Tenacious D]

I'm well aware of that but it doesn't change the fact that there are many delusional fans who think that changing a coach will start delivering 10 win seasons every year. Football has been very cyclical over the decades and UT is in a low part of the cycle. Hiring Dooley or any other coach in America isn't going to change the fact UT is a long, long way away from a 10 win season.

It is self-evident that college football is, seemingly by its very nature, cyclical. Perhaps it's how you respond, what you'll tolerate and what you're willing to change that affects both the frequency and duration of the down-trending cycles.

I can't imagine that even the staunchest Bama supporter envisioned Schula leading them to a BCS Championship some 3-4 years ago. They were on a downward trend, to be sure. Realizing that it was the coach that made the difference - and doing what it took to get him - is what reduced their downward cycle from 10+ years to 2.

They not only seem pretty happy with the decision to hire Saban, but can now look back on the DuBose, Price and Schula hirings as the folly that they truly were. The chances that we've hired the reincarnation of one of the latter three are exponentially higher than we've snagged the next Saban.

The reality is that DD could be the next Saban - and I hope he is - but it's highly unlikely, given what we currently know about him.

At the risk of making an overly generalized statement, I'll say this - while consistently winning 8-10 games a year sustained two coaches for over 20 years at Tennessee, those will be the last two who will enjoy such a grotesque luxury. DD has 3, maybe 4 years - absolute tops - to either play in an SCCG or win a BCS game, or he's going to get rung up.

The "Old Guard" who believe that those expectations are just plain crazy can doubt all they want - they said the same thing about PF, too.

How'd that turn out?

 

[utmba93]

You're right. It's not like they didn't win a national title in 92 or anything like that.

That would be the guy who replaces Dooley who wins that: Gene Stallings at Bama. That's the level of coach we should be at now, but we're not. Then we have him for 6 or so years, before we go through the DuBose-Franchione-Shula era. Then we pay for a Saban-like coach around 2030ish.

 

[UTVOL02]

Damn, I was hoping that you were right about this, because it would have made me feel alot better about the hire. Unfortunately, it's pure fiction. La Tech won their conference and was in the Humanitarian Bowl in 2001.

The rest of your listed qualifications mean nothing to me. He was a highly regarded assistant? Well, there are alot of those around the country. He kept our recruiting class somewhat together? Well, that's decent but we were on our way to a top 5 class anyway, before Kiffin left, and our rivals got better classes, so it's still a step back. He's smart? educated? humble? Sounds like Buzz Peterson to me.

My bad, they lost a bowl game in 2001 and tied in 1990...I meant to say the hadn't WON a bowl game in 30 years before Dooley.

lol I guess you're right bud, we should just concede now and kill ourselves. Dooley isn't impressive at all, he doesn't have a chance and we know this because it's more fun to predict losing? DOOM AND GLOOM!!!!! :mf_surrender:

sick life bro ost-4-1090547912:ost-4-1090547912:

 

[utmba93]

UT has 2 legit NT in over 100 years of football, expecting title is merely absurd.

If you really want to enjoy being a fan for a team that has no hope to win a championship in football, might I recommend Vandy or Kentucky. Neither one is that far away from your needs, either geographically or aspirationally.

 

[UTBuff37]

I wouldn't exactly say our talent level is the worst it's been since the mid 80's especially considering the back to back recruiting classes we just had. It is down and it's very apparent Fulmer left our team bare, but if we have another solid recruiting class next yr like we did these past 2 we should be in pretty good shape IMO. Especially if we recruit our needs.

 

[GahLee]

That would be the guy who replaces Dooley who wins that: Gene Stallings at Bama. That's the level of coach we should be at now, but we're not. Then we have him for 6 or so years, before we go through the DuBose-Franchione-Shula era. Then we pay for a Saban-like coach around 2030ish.

UT may never hit a homerun like Alabama did with Saban, there aren't many coaches of his caliber out there.

 

[oregonvol]

Those rankings are only a very speculative projection.
Look at UT's highly ranked 2006 class and compare it to Bama's. Productivity isn't even close.

If we're going by production then you have to give the credit to Saban, not Shula, since he was their coach for most of the time. Just like you can fault Fulmer and Kiffin for not getting the most out of UT's '06 class.

You can't just say that since Saban succeeded with those players that must mean that Shula did an excellent job recruiting.

 

[GahLee]

I wouldn't exactly say our talent level is the worst it's been since the mid 80's especially considering we just had back to back recruiting classes. It is down and it's very apparent Fulmer left our team bare, but if we have another solid recruiting class next yr like we did these past 2 we should be in pretty good shape IMO. Especially if we recruit our needs.

It's not that our talent is bad, it's just that our rivals talent level far exceeds what we have, which makes our talent level look worse than it really is.

 

[utmba93]

My bad, they lost a bowl game in 2001 and tied in 1990...I meant to say the hadn't WON a bowl game in 30 years before Dooley.

lol I guess you're right bud, we should just concede now and kill ourselves. Dooley isn't impressive at all, he doesn't have a chance and we know this because it's more fun to predict losing? DOOM AND GLOOM!!!!! :mf_surrender:

sick life bro ost-4-1090547912:ost-4-1090547912:

Why be so drastic?

All that is required is a determination to hire a proven football coach and the rejection of the notion that the Vols can't win championships.

 

[Vercingetorix]

I love how everyone is talking about UT like no coach could pull them out of mediocrity for 10 years. Dooley saved the recruiting class right? Kiffin pulled in a good class last year. We aren't dead in the water.

No, but we have fewer than 50 scholarship players coming back next year. We are going to be on the functional equivalent of probation for a couple of seasons until we can build our numbers back up. Throw in the awful lack of depth on both lines and you have a big rebuilding project for any coach. It's not hopeless by any means, but it's going to be an uphill climb for awhile.

 

[utmba93]

UT may never hit a homerun like Alabama did with Saban, there aren't many coaches of his caliber out there.

We certainly won't hit a homerun if we keep swinging at balls in the dirt. However, I do believe Pujols once hit one after it bounced. Dooley could fit that analogy well. So, there is hope. Yippee!

 

[oregonvol]

My bad, they lost a bowl game in 2001 and tied in 1990...I meant to say the hadn't WON a bowl game in 30 years before Dooley.

lol I guess you're right bud, we should just concede now and kill ourselves. Dooley isn't impressive at all, he doesn't have a chance and we know this because it's more fun to predict losing? DOOM AND GLOOM!!!!! :mf_surrender:

sick life bro ost-4-1090547912:ost-4-1090547912:

no, we should demand that our school puts a better product on the field and that they hire the right coach to do so.

it's no fun for me to predict losing. I hope I'm wrong. But at least I'm not one of these guys who are predicting it will be 5 years before we can compete in the SEC and are totally okay with it.

 

[GahLee]

If you really want to enjoy being a fan for a team that has no hope to win a championship in football, might I recommend Vandy or Kentucky. Neither one is that far away from your needs, either geographically or aspirationally.

You got me all wrong, I have realistic expectations...I expect UT to compete for the SEC every year and win it occasionally.

I don't expect NT's.

 

[Vercingetorix]

UT has 2 legit NT in over 100 years of football, expecting title is merely absurd.

But we have a bunch of SEC titles. It's not absurd to expect those.

 

[utmba93]

You're picture should be beside the word "jackazz" in the dictionary.

It's nice of you to offer to give up your current spot there. I'm humbled by the gesture.

 

[UTVOL02]

Why be so drastic?

All that is required is a determination to hire a proven football coach and the rejection of the notion that the Vols can't win championships.

Well, our coach left 3 weeks before signing day, our AD tried for a homerun hire but nobody was interested given the timing. He hired the best available coach at the time that would take the job. It's not like Hamilton didn't try for big names, right?

This post of yours would be fine and dandy a few weeks ago. But as of now we have a new coach and he seems to be giving 110% to rebuild our program back to winning SEC championships and national championships. Other than his record at La Tech you like to point out what exactly makes you so damn sure he's not going to win championships here?

 

[GahLee]

We certainly won't hit a homerun if we keep swinging at balls in the dirt. However, I do believe Pujols once hit one after it bounced. Dooley could fit that analogy well. So, there is hope. Yippee!

He may do great...this is all hypothetical.

Your all about some baseball analogies.

 

[oregonvol]

Well, our coach left 3 weeks before signing day, our AD tried for a homerun hire but nobody was interested given the timing. He hired the best available coach at the time that would take the job. It's not like Hamilton didn't try for big names, right?

This post of yours would be fine and dandy a few weeks ago. But as of now we have a new coach and he seems to be giving 110% to rebuild our program back to winning SEC championships and national championships. Other than his record at La Tech you like to point out what exactly makes you so damn sure he's not going to win championships here?

Hamilton's job is not to try for big names. Anyone could be AD if that was all that was required. His job is to get big names and he failed miserably.

 

[GahLee]

But we have a bunch of SEC titles. It's not absurd to expect those.

Not at all, that is my expectation...compete every year and win it occasionally.

A realistic approach, at least I think so.

 

[timmy]

Well, our coach left 3 weeks before signing day, our AD tried for a homerun hire but nobody was interested given the timing. He hired the best available coach at the time that would take the job. It's not like Hamilton didn't try for big names, right?

This post of yours would be fine and dandy a few weeks ago. But as of now we have a new coach and he seems to be giving 110% to rebuild our program back to winning SEC championships and national championships. Other than his record at La Tech you like to point out what exactly makes you so damn sure he's not going to win championships here?

What can you point out that says he will win championships here?

 

[tigervol9802]

I just like fans who bemoan a coach before he's coached his first spring practice. I am throughly convinved if this had happened in 2004 and we'd snagged Meyer that the same people would have complained.

All I know is that many people outside of the UT program that know a little about football that I know think we may have snagged a potential home run with this. Most of the same people tried to tell me from Day 1 that we'd be in trouble with Kiffin.

Can Dooley win? I hope so, but I, like the rest of you, really have no clue. I do know he's assembled a pretty good staff all in all. I think the potential is there.

 

[utmba93]

You got me all wrong, I have realistic expectations...I expect UT to compete for the SEC every year and win it occasionally.

I don't expect NT's.

Out of 12 BCS NC games, the SEC Champ has won half. Are you suggesting that the Vols can only win it on occasions when the conference is down?