What's best for the future of UT football: Dooley teams win or... (merged)

The low part of UT's cycle stems from retaining a coach who underperfromed for years. It had nothing to do with a bad hire.

I'm not a Fulmer fan or even remotely close. However, if you think that's historically the low point of a cycle, you might have to shield your eyes in a few years...
 
This made me laugh.

However, we are 9th in win percentage too...

I-A Winning Percentage 1869-2009

I'm well aware of that but it doesn't change the fact that there are many delusional fans who think that changing a coach will start delivering 10 win seasons every year. Football has been very cyclical over the decades and UT is in a low part of the cycle. Hiring Dooley or any other coach in America isn't going to change the fact UT is a long, long way away from a 10 win season.
 
Words cannot even describe how absurd I find this thread...

The thought of doing anything other than pulling for UT to win is completely beyond me...

Suggesting there exists a scenario where a true UT fan could hope that we lose would be laughable if it weren't so appauling
 
The question isn't that ridiculous. If Dooley isn't a national championship-caliber coach, which he probably isn't, we should want one to get here as fast as possible...

Phil Fulmer and Les Miles aren't really "national championship-caliber coaches," and yet they each won one anyway. There aren't that many elite coaches in the country, and none of them would have left their current jobs to take over the Tennessee mess anyway. Rooting for Dooley to fail because he's not an elite coach is letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.
 
I'm well aware of that but it doesn't change the fact that there are many delusional fans who think that changing a coach will start delivering 10 win seasons every year. Football has been very cyclical over the decades and UT is in a low part of the cycle. Hiring Dooley or any other coach in America isn't going to change the fact UT is a long, long way away from a 10 win season.
How far away did Alabama look from a perfect regular season after the 2007 season? Good coaches can get it done, period.
 
Phil Fulmer and Les Miles aren't really "national championship-caliber coaches," and yet they each won one anyway. There aren't that many elite coaches in the country, and none of them would have left their current jobs to take over the Tennessee mess anyway. Rooting for Dooley to fail because he's not an elite coach is letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.

They both had sizeable talent advantages. We are currently the exact opposite. And I've said many times that I hope I'm wrong and he succeeds...
 
I'm well aware of that but it doesn't change the fact that there are many delusional fans who think that changing a coach will start delivering 10 win seasons every year. Football has been very cyclical over the decades and UT is in a low part of the cycle. Hiring Dooley or any other coach in America isn't going to change the fact UT is a long, long way away from a 10 win season.

What the hell do you think makes teams go through cycles other than coaches? It's not like God is picking favorites every five years...
 
To say that there is some doubt about whether CDD can ever win a championship at UT is a gross understatement.

There's also doubt that he can ever win the SEC East.

Instead, many here and in other UT circles, feel the best he can do is win may 10 games in his third year at UT, but never any more than that. In the meantime, many concede that he will help recruiting, but that he can not recruit as well as CLK and company. So, even his recruiting upside is limited versus the trajectory we were on.

Before anyone starts claiming that I don't want to Vols to win, let me clarify in saying that we all want the Vols to win.

Yet, is winning and restoring 'mediocrity' at UT over the next 6 or 7 years better for the Vols program, or would simply seeing Dooley repeat his LA Tech record at UT over the next two years get a proven coach on the Hill faster?

Guess you answered your own question there, huh?
 
Trying real hard to refrain from name calling.

I'm giving Kiffin ( the whole X thing is retarded ) credit for the 8 EE's.

Other than that, the class belongs to Dooley and staff...I have no clue how many would have stayed if granted a release, nor do I care to ponder it.

Of the guys that signed after being committed to UT prior to Kiffin left are; Pair, Palardy, Dixon and Fulton

So give Kiffin credit if you want, for 12 out of the 25 we signed.

So, now you credit X with nearly half of the class that you only a few moments ago said was DD's doing?

Maybe you should revert to name-calling. Not only was it equally sensible to your current argument, but was at least somewhat entertaining (as any regression is).
 
How far away did Alabama look from a perfect regular season after the 2007 season? Good coaches can get it done, period.

Not as far as UT is currently. Shula had recruited well. He just couldn't coach a lick. Saban continued to recruit well and developed players and instilled his system of great discipline in that team.
 
That's not the question. The question is about quick failure vs slow painful mediocrity highlighted by chicken bowl appearances.
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Extremely well-stated. I still fail to achieve, but admire your brevity.
 
I hope you're right, but there is nothing to base that on.

Nothing? Well, let's see, he was extremely successful as a recruiter with LSU where they had 2 #1 classes and won a nat champ, Saban thought enough of him to take him to the NFL and wanted him at BAMA, he took a La Tech program that hadn't sniffed a bowl game in 30 years to one in year 2, he brought in 27 3star recruits in his 3 years there vs. 10 the previous 3 years, he was highly recommended by Muschamp, given praise by Saban, held our class together 19 days before signing day, added a handful of top recruits as well, hired some great coaches with tons of upside, kept 2 of our best recruiters/coaches on staff, he's young, aggressive, smart, highly educated, humble, etc... Nothing to base that on? I'd say there's quite a bit to base it on...

I'd also say there's a much greater chance he's a very successful coach here than a bust. This idea that he's going to be mediocre b/c of his record at La Tech is absurd. All he needs to do is keep bringing in top 10 classes and develop them into better players and people, to win big at UT. He has all the resources to do that and he knows how to get the most out of his players, just as Wilcox did at Boise St.

It makes me sad for some of you guys seeing nothing but mediocrity, doom and gloom for our program. I see nothing but quite the opposite.
 
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The problem will come in if we're winning enough to just tag along with the real contenders and find it hard to make a move. That's 21st century Fulmer redux and I want no part of that.

Thanks to his tenure and the NC in his back pocket, Fulmer had the political support to go 8-4 essentially forever, if he could have managed it. Dooley won't have that. This program isn't going to tolerate getting it handed to us by Florida and Alabama forever. If we don't start winning our share, Hamilton will be fired and the next guy will bring in his own coach.
 
What the hell do you think makes teams go through cycles other than coaches? It's not like God is picking favorites every five years...


I agree but a somewhat random coaching hire doesn't guarantee 10 win seasons. UT's talent level is at its lowest since the mid-80s. It is very different from the situation at Alabama that Saban took over. A 10 win season could be possible in 2012 if all the cards fall right. 3 years and alot of good luck is not a quick turnaround.
 
Stupid premise.

Best for UT is success, even if the OP doesn't like the guy who brings it.

I don't know that our talent level is down. I think its more accurate that our depth is way down. Talent on the front lines should be competitive.

Our schedule is brutal. But after the bammers, I see 5 winnable games. So the depth may cause more of a concern at the end of the season as the difficulty of the schedule declines.

If we win one of the big 3 before the injuries start to pile up, we could have an 8 win season. That woulda been an automatic extension for some UT coaches.
 
Not as far as UT is currently. Shula had recruited well. He just couldn't coach a lick. Saban continued to recruit well and developed players and instilled his system of great discipline in that team.
I love how everyone is talking about UT like no coach could pull them out of mediocrity for 10 years. Dooley saved the recruiting class right? Kiffin pulled in a good class last year. We aren't dead in the water.
 
I agree but a somewhat random coaching hire doesn't guarantee 10 win seasons. UT's talent level is at its lowest since the mid-80s. It is very different from the situation at Alabama that Saban took over. A 10 win season could be possible in 2012 if all the cards fall right. 3 years and alot of good luck is not a quick turnaround.

It's not really a "long, long way away" either. It would take a couple more recruiting classes and a good coach. If Dooley isn't one, it could take a while, but that would be his fault--not "the cycle's."
 
Not as far as UT is currently. Shula had recruited well. He just couldn't coach a lick. Saban continued to recruit well and developed players and instilled his system of great discipline in that team.

On the Bama analogy, some say we've entered the Shula era, but my fear is that we're in Perkins-Curry era (about 20 years before we hire our Saban). That's a long time to wait.
 
Not as far as UT is currently. Shula had recruited well. He just couldn't coach a lick. Saban continued to recruit well and developed players and instilled his system of great discipline in that team.

Shula didn't recruit that well. ESPN had his 2006 class at #18. Nick Saban coached up alot of Shula's guys.
 
So, now you credit X with nearly half of the class that you only a few moments ago said was DD's doing?

Maybe you should revert to name-calling. Not only was it equally sensible to your current argument, but was at least somewhat entertaining (as any regression is).

No...I said credit him with 12 out of 25 if you want...I say he should get credit for 8 EE's...please read posts more than once if need be...geez.
 
On the Bama analogy, some say we've entered the Shula era, but my fear is that we're in Perkins-Curry era (about 20 years before we hire our Saban). That's a long time to wait.

You're right. It's not like they didn't win a national title in 92 or anything like that.
 
Best for UT is success, even if the OP doesn't like the guy who brings it.

Who said I don't like Dooley? I've said I think he'd be a great AD. He seems smart, presents himself well-enough, and, according to our current AD, is well-organized.

My concern is that he is incapable of winning championships and that should be the standard against which the HFC is judged.

It seems like Hamilton's stated goal for CPF was to win one every few years or so. I can't recall excactly, but something like that is the expectation for the UT football coach.
 

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