What's best for the future of UT football: Dooley teams win or... (merged)

#176
#176
utmba93 said:
I'm not trying to attack Dooley here, but you should know there is a lot of data with which to do so. If you don't want people to keep spreading it, quit challenging them to do so. Do some of your own work here. His record is dismal.

Recruiting: The difference in what the two coaches demonstrated in recruiting is that Kiffin recruited both classes. In baseball terms, CLK and company were the starting pitchers and the most you can give Dooley credit for is a 'save' (with help from CLK hires who were left behind).

The thread is not Dooley versus Kiffin.

It's Dooley versus mediocrity and how will UT fans respond this time around?
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Your original post made reference to Dooley not having the ability to keep us on the path CLK had set. That makes it a comparison.

Also, getting a top 10 recruiting class after the mess that Kiffin left is pretty amazing. It's not like all of those recruits didn't open themselves back up 3 weeks to signing day. You and I both know there is info there to attack Dooley (record at La Tech most obvious), but I just don't see how we stepped down. This was a lateral move from one gamble to another.

I believe Hamilton should have opened the checkbook and not taken no for an answer until he had a big name, but I wished for him to do that the first time too...
 
#177
#177
grace2u said:
I see what you're saying, but everyone starts somewhere. I found these examples a few months ago and thought they were intersting.

In 1902, Atlantic Monthly rejected a stack of poems by Robert Frost. In 1905, the University of Bern rejected Albert Einstein's dissertation as "irrelevant and fanciful". In 1894, a teacher wrote that a student was "a conspicuous lack of success". The student was Winston Churchill. In 1785, Napoleon graduated 42nd in a class of 58 from Ecole Militaire in Paris.

Now, I'm not about to compare CDD to any of those men, but my point is this...there is a point in every great man's life before he is great. I agree this is a bit far fetched, but the best sometimes come from unsuccessful backgrounds.
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You're kind of reaching here to defend him. Rather than bring up Einstein or Napoleon, just give me an example of a college head coach who has had a losing record in a lower school/conference, who was then hired to take over a program in the SEC and ended up winning championships there. Anyone in the past 30 or so years? Seriously, I'd love to have an example of this sort of thing working out before, but I don't think it has, at least not in the modern era. If you don't learn from history...
 
#178
#178
GahLee said:
You missed my point.

UT may have been able to get a better coach, but if the process would have been gone on for an extended period of time, no doubt, we lose the class.

Look at our rivals, the level of talent that they are bringing in, it was imperative that UT do well, just to try and keep pace.

No one can say with any certainty that we could have hired a more " better" coach.
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The HC will have both the greatest and most far-reaching impact on a program's direction, and certainly, more than any one recruiting class.

Anyone who watched UT football from 2001-2008 should know that lesson all too well.

Neither can you say, "with certainty" that we would NOT have landed a better coach. There would would have undoubtedly been more coaches who were willing to talk / listen some two weeks AFTER NSD, than before it. So, we can say that the pool of willing candidates would have most likely been larger, had Hammy waited.
 
#183
#183
utmba93 said:
I'm not trying to attack Dooley here, but you should know there is a lot of data with which to do so. If you don't want people to keep spreading it, quit challenging them to do so. Do some of your own work here. His record is dismal.

Recruiting: The difference in what the two coaches demonstrated in recruiting is that Kiffin recruited both classes. In baseball terms, CLK and company were the starting pitchers and the most you can give Dooley credit for is a 'save' (with help from CLK hires who were left behind).

The thread is not Dooley versus Kiffin.

It's Dooley versus mediocrity and how will UT fans respond this time around?
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Kiffin got 8 out what? 25?

Given the short time period, the staff did great.
 
#184
#184
yoranguavol2 said:
how does your question have anything to do with my post? My point is not that he IS a proven coach... by all admission he IS NOT proven. What I am saying is that being "unproven" does not necessarily mean that he will be "unsuccessful"- just because he hasn't done it doesn't mean that he won't!
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You acted as if people are jumping to unfounded conclusions in ruling out his winning big. That is not the case at all. The leap is assuming the opposite after the La Tech stint. Doesn't mean it won't be different, but the hire is similar to what we dogged Auburn about with Chizik.
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#191
#191
T-TownVol said:
The money was there and was NOT an issue for the right person.......the right person did not want rebuild with "what was here"
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How do you know anything about what money was offered? Please cite your sources, if you're going to make that claim.

The biggest duty of an AD at a place like UT is to find and hire the right guy to lead the football program. Hamilton needed to convince someone to come here. It may not have been easy, but that's why he's the AD and gets paid well. If it's just a matter of picking up the phone and saying "Do you want to be head coach at UT for xx dollars", then anybody could be doing his job and anybody should.

Remember, Saban turned down Alabama initially and Meyer had an offer from Notre Dame when he signed with Florida. Those AD's had to do some work to get their guy.
 
#193
#193
BigPapaVol said:
You acted as if people are jumping to unfounded conclusions in ruling out his winning big. That is not the case at all. The leap is assuming the opposite after the La Tech stint. Doesn't mean it won't be different, but the hire is similar to what we dogged Auburn about with Chizik.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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You're making my point for me. Ask Auburn fans now if they are happy with their hire.
 
#195
#195
The turmoil in which Kiffin left the program put all recruits on standby, so what if Kiffin had recruited them prior to him leaving. They still had offers from other schools and could have went wherever, instead they were convinced otherwise.

Whether it was more of Chaney and Thompson doing that or if Dooley had a big hand in it, they should get the credit for it.
 
#197
#197
utmba93 said:
Again, they are hired and they have their chance.

If you consider my posting thoughts on a message board as so powerful it overcomes what they can do with jobs in hand, you see them as much worse than I do.
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Your response makes no intellectual sense. I was saying that YOU should give them a chance to succeed or fail in at least spring practice before you start suggesting they will never win the SEC East, or that we may be better off without them in 3 years.

It is a good thing "fans" are not allowed to make any important decisions when it comes to our program. That is proven on here every day.
 
#198
#198
GahLee said:
Can't give Kiffin credit for that, only the 8 EE...nothing more.
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That is bs and you know it. I'm guessing many of our recruits were going to commit to UT at that point, regardless of the coach.
 
#199
#199
GahLee said:
Can't give Kiffin credit for that, only the 8 EE...nothing more.
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Disagree.

Dooley got Eddrick, Hunter, Stone and the RB. We lost Dixon, Ambles, Thompkins, Green and likely Nickell, and a couple of really good guards.

That said, he deserves kudos for salvaging an awful situation.
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#200
#200
oregonvol said:
You're kind of reaching here to defend him. Rather than bring up Einstein or Napoleon, just give me an example of a college head coach who has had a losing record in a lower school/conference, who was then hired to take over a program in the SEC and ended up winning championships there. Anyone in the past 30 or so years? Seriously, I'd love to have an example of this sort of thing working out before, but I don't think it has, at least not in the modern era. If you don't learn from history...
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Not exactly what you asked for (not SEC), but close is Mack Brown:

11 - 23 record at Tulane got him a job at UNC
69 - 46 record at UNC got him a job at Texas

The rest is history.

I will admit, this is the only scenario close to Dooley's that I know of where a coach had National Title type success...
 
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