What's best for the future of UT football: Dooley teams win or... (merged)

#201
#201
grace2u said:
I see what you're saying, but everyone starts somewhere. I found these examples a few months ago and thought they were intersting.

In 1902, Atlantic Monthly rejected a stack of poems by Robert Frost. In 1905, the University of Bern rejected Albert Einstein's dissertation as "irrelevant and fanciful". In 1894, a teacher wrote that a student was "a conspicuous lack of success". The student was Winston Churchill. In 1785, Napoleon graduated 42nd in a class of 58 from Ecole Militaire in Paris.

Now, I'm not about to compare CDD to any of those men, but my point is this...there is a point in every great man's life before he is great. I agree this is a bit far fetched, but the best sometimes come from unsuccessful backgrounds.
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Tennessee is not, "everywhere". Last I checked, there aren't a lot of $100M companies who hire interns as their CEO's, in order to afford them the chance to cut their teeth.

It's certainly true that the intern could very well turn out to be the next Iacocca.....but it would continue to be the height of stupidity to have hired him to run Chrysler at such a young and unproven age.
 
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#202
#202
GahLee said:
The turmoil in which Kiffin left the program put all recruits on standby, so what if Kiffin had recruited them prior to him leaving. They still had offers from other schools and could have went wherever, instead they were convinced otherwise.

Whether it was more of Chaney and Thompson doing that or if Dooley had a big hand in it, they should get the credit for it.
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That's who built relationships with the holdover recruits. The bulk of the credit is theirs.
 
#203
#203
oregonvol said:
You're kind of reaching here to defend him. Rather than bring up Einstein or Napoleon, just give me an example of a college head coach who has had a losing record in a lower school/conference, who was then hired to take over a program in the SEC and ended up winning championships there. Anyone in the past 30 or so years? Seriously, I'd love to have an example of this sort of thing working out before, but I don't think it has, at least not in the modern era. If you don't learn from history...
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Interesting, I'll do some research on that and see what I can come up with. It has yet to be seen if he can win championships, but I'm regretting laughing at the Chizik hire right now.

So, you weren't on during the Kiffin hire, where did you stand with him? He didn't have any impressive seasons as a HC and had only been successful as an assistant. What did you think when he was hired?
 
#209
#209
BigPapaVol said:
I'm not making your point. Chizik was an awful hire. Near term fortune doesn't change that.
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Are you honestly suggesting that if Auburn continues to recruit the way they did this season that they won't compete for championships? Saban isn't winning at Alabama because he is so much better of a coach. He wins because he has better players than most of the teams he plays. The same can be said at Florida, Texas, USC, OSU etc. With that said, if Dooley is a "good coach" and he can recruit championship players than we will compete for championships. This is not rocket science here- it's football.
 
#210
#210
What do you mean by wins? If Dooley wins championships, why do we need another guy to get here faster?
 
#211
#211
Tenacious D said:
Tennessee is not, "everywhere". Last I checked, there aren't a lot of $100M companies who hire interns as their CEO's, in order to afford them the chance to cut their teeth.

It's certainly true that the intern could very well turn out to be the next Iacocca.....but it would continue to be the height of stupidity to have hired him at that young and improven age.
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I don't really think you call a guy who was part (granted we don't really know how big a part) of a winning team under Saban, and then an AD and Coach at LaTech an "intern". I'd say he has a better resume than our last two coaches.
 
#212
#212
BigPapaVol said:
Disagree.

Dooley got Eddrick, Hunter, Stone and the RB. We lost Dixon, Ambles, Thompkins, Green and likely Nickell, and a couple of really good guards.

That said, he deserves kudos for salvaging an awful situation.
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What did you expect?
When Kiffin left, there were going to be guys who backed off from UT.

Again, the staff did a great job of salvaging a dire situation.
 
#213
#213
BigPapaVol said:
I'm not making your point. Chizik was an awful hire. Near term fortune doesn't change that.
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It amazes me that Auburn is so impressed with their season this past year. Tubs averaged 11 wins a year in the 4 years before 2008, and had an awful year with a new offensive coordinator. He could have won 9 this year.
 
#214
#214
BigPapaVol said:
Disagree.

Dooley got Eddrick, Hunter, Stone and the RB. We lost Dixon, Ambles, Thompkins, Green and likely Nickell, and a couple of really good guards.

That said, he deserves kudos for salvaging an awful situation.
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Stone was rumored as a silent to CLK.

But giving CDD credit as you noted, of the 25, that CLK: 21, CDD: 4. That's also not taking anything away for those lost.

I agree that CDD and his staff, particularly Thompson and Chaney, did a great job with the save.
 
#215
#215
yoranguavol2 said:
Are you honestly suggesting that if Auburn continues to recruit the way they did this season that they won't compete for championships? Saban isn't winning at Alabama because he is so much better of a coach. He wins because he has better players than most of the teams he plays. The same can be said at Florida, Texas, USC, OSU etc. With that said, if Dooley is a "good coach" and he can recruit championship players than we will compete for championships. This is not rocket science here- it's football.
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Saban is that good of a coach, having talent means nothing if you can't develop it.

See Fulmer circa the early 2000's.
 
#216
#216
GahLee said:
I feel differently, other than the 8 EE's it is Dooley's class.
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Those EE's weren't in the bag either....see O's call to tell them not to go to class...

That said, it's naive to think the old staff and holdovers had nothing to do with keeping the non-EE recruits. Many of them were already sold on UT prior to Dooley's hiring.

Dooley should get credit for Loften (who USC tried to get), Stone (who Saban was after for Bama), Neal, Nance and Rogers. I know that CLK had reached out to Nance and Rogers before leaving, but he did little more than open a channel of communication. Dooley made that sell.
 
#217
#217
First&Tenn said:
Not exactly what you asked for (not SEC), but close is Mack Brown:

11 - 23 record at Tulane got him a job at UNC
69 - 46 record at UNC got him a job at Texas

The rest is history.

I will admit, this is the only scenario close to Dooley's that I know of where a coach had National Title type success...
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I wish I could take solace in that, but Brown had several great teams at North Carolina (two 10 win seasons IIRC) after taking over a 1-10 team at a basketball school, so that's clearly a completely different scenario.
 
#218
#218
yoranguavol2 said:
You're making my point for me. Ask Auburn fans now if they are happy with their hire.
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Using the, "he-might-turn-out-ok" logic, I should stop investing money into my IRA, and should buy lotto tickets, instead.

I mean, one of those may pay off. Big time. So long as that possibility exists, I've seemingly made a wise decision. However, if I don't hit the lotto....
 
#219
#219
utmba93 said:
With your reading skills I could only imagine how long that would take. I probably wouldn't have time to do it under those conditions either. :)
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You are right. It usually takes me a while to comprehend the babbling of your posts.
 
#220
#220
utmba93 said:
Stone was rumored as a silent to CLK.

But giving CDD credit as you noted, of the 25, that CLK: 21, CDD: 4. That's also not taking anything away for those lost.

I agree that CDD and his staff, particularly Thompson and Chaney, did a great job with the save.
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Your argument is getting derailed here man...I understand where you were coming from in the OP but now your giving Kiffin credit for basically the entire class...leaving out the best prospect we signed.
 
#221
#221
oregonvol said:
I wish I could take solace in that, but Brown had several great teams at North Carolina (two 10 win seasons IIRC) after taking over a 1-10 team at a basketball school, so that's clearly a completely different scenario.
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It is different, just the closest I could think of because of the Tulane years.

May have more proven your point than dispelled it, I just wanted to put the comparison I had out there :hi:
 
#222
#222
oregonvol said:
I wish I could take solace in that, but Brown had several great teams at North Carolina (two 10 win seasons IIRC) after taking over a 1-10 team at a basketball school, so that's clearly a completely different scenario.
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I'm not really seeing how its that different a scenario. A loser becoming a winner, isn't that exactly what we are talking about?
 
#223
#223
First&Tenn said:
Those EE's weren't in the bag either....see O's call to tell them not to go to class...

That said, it's naive to think the old staff and holdovers had nothing to do with keeping the non-EE recruits. Many of them were already sold on UT prior to Dooley's hiring.

Dooley should get credit for Loften (who USC tried to get), Stone (who Saban was after for Bama), Neal, Nance and Rogers. I know that CLK had reached out to Nance and Rogers before leaving, but he did little more than open a channel of communication. Dooley made that sell.
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Hunter?
Clark?
 
#224
#224
utmba93 said:
Stone was rumored as a silent to CLK.

But giving CDD credit as you noted, of the 25, that CLK: 21, CDD: 4. That's also not taking anything away for those lost.

I agree that CDD and his staff, particularly Thompson and Chaney, did a great job with the save.
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Stone was absolutely not coming to UT with CLK.


"Tennessee didn't seem like a place where I would feel comfortable (under Kiffin), but now I feel like I will be comfortable with the leadership and I'll be able to really grow as a person," Stone said. "(Dooley's staff) seems more down to earth, more genuine people. I feel better taking coaching from them because they're going to be coaching and guiding me for the next four years."

Derek Dooley's charm helps win over James Stone for UT | tennessean.com | The Tennessean
 
#225
#225
Tenacious D said:
Using the, "he-might-turn-out-ok" logic, I should stop investing money into my IRA, and should buy lotto tickets, instead.

I mean, one of those may pay off. Big time. So long as that possibility exists, I've seemingly made a wise decision. However, if I don't hit the lotto....
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I understand your point, but there is a problem with that comparison:

Kiffin was a lottery ticket. We didn't cash in our retirement savings (Fulmer?), we just traded one powerball ticket for another...
 
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