Would our government experiment on a group of its citizens even if it meant killing alll number of them?

[theFallGuy]

While doing research on the possibility that Lyme disease is a bio weapon that was accidental released ( Red has Lyme and is very sick) I descovered this.

The Gay Experiment That Started AIDS In America

Thoughts?

Well George Bush did cause Katrina so......

 

[joevol33]

Wouldn't doubt it.

 

[Red13]

Thanks for the info. About 2.5 months ago I felt like the flu was coming on. Friday I was fine. Saturday, Sunday, and Monday I slept almost solidly - brief bathroom breaks and some food. I woke up and could not walk. I felt like all my joints were fused. Joint and muscle pain was bad. I had bad headaches. I felt lightheaded and dizzy. A coworker asked me by chance if I had been bitten by a tick recently. I had been about a week and a half before these symptoms kicked in. I went to the doctor and got the same response - probably a virus. He put me on Doxy and some anti-inflammatory pills. Nothing helped. Memory and focus became a problem. Never had the rash. The only difference between my symptoms and yours is not quite the excruciating pain. Mine's really bad but I've been told I should be doing some serious screaming. I'd like to think the pain I'm dealing with is actually bad because it is. But I've had two people tell me unless I am writhing in pain screaming that I probably don't have LD.

I'm waiting on bloodwork to come back - they tested for Lupus, RA, and numerous other things including Lyme. Being laid up in bed all the time in pain and not being able to fully focus has been a problem. Hopefully the bloodwork will determine what I have if LD and even make sure to narrow others out. I will check into this doctor you mention as well. Thanks for this info.

Boy does your story sound familiar!! Definitely check DR. Horowitz' s symptom list.

I do not trust the lab at all! There is a Dr in North Georgia who is amazing at figuring out hard cases. Because no one could find anything I was certainly crazy! He treats symptoms and listens to the patient history.

Have you developed food intolerance? One food that is an inflammatory food is Gluten. My joints have improved greatly since I stopped it. It takes about two weeks and suddenly you will notice. I do not have a gluten allergy according to lab work.
I try my best to eat single ingredient foods.

I can PM you my doctors name and the things I am doing to help if you like.

Boy that brain fog is something isn't it?? And the fatigue!!!
I've been treated for almost 1 year now. I am no longer bed bound, I can form thoughts, joint pain better, fatigue is still an issue. On my best day I operate at 50%.
Please keep me updated. I would like to know how you are.

 

[Red13]

That's quite an ordeal, Red13.

I've been diagnosed with psoriatic arthritis, so I can relate to some of what you talk about. I don't have a reason to think that it's not PsA (other than the fact that it's not responding well to treatment), but the saga has taught me that there are conditions that doctors don't understand well at all.

Hope you're getting better.

PSA was one of my diagnoses.
This time last year I was on Remicade, Methotrexate, prednisone, lyrica, celebrex, tramadol, and cymbalta. I still lived with a joint pain level of 7-8. And debilitating fatigue!!

I am not on any of those drugs now. I have made significant dietary changes.
If you have an inflammatory disease Gluten is your enemy. I am not allergic to gluten. I stopped it for 2 weeks and could tell a big difference. Eat single ingredient foods. By doing that you eliminate unnecessary monitors.



Have you heard of Amy Meyers MD? She is a great resource on how the cure is in the kitchen.

The clinic I go to is an alternative and internal med Dr. He uses natural and regular medicine to help. The combination of both has me semi functional. I used to cry everyday because I could not figure out how someone this sick could still be alive.

There are answers out there for these conditions.
As an RN for 22 years, I had to really open my mind. The medicine I practiced failed me so I tried something new.

 

[Red13]

We know HIV/AIDS was in Africa in the early 1900's. So this talk of it being a bioweapon is paranoia and propaganda. BBC News - Aids: Origin of pandemic 'was 1920s Kinshasa'
http://evolve.zoo.ox.ac.uk/Evolve/Oliver_Pybus_files/Faria et al (2014) Science.pdf

Archaeological evidence shows Lyme Disease in humans is at least thousands of years old and the disease itself is millions, so we know it wasn't engineered either:

Lyme Disease Bacteria Found In Tick Fossils Dating Back 15 Million Years
Iceman Mummy May Hold Earliest Evidence of Lyme Disease


I know these answers aren't as exciting as Nazi scientists and covert government operations. Sorry.

So these articles are right??

I understand your disbelief and was not an idea I entertained until my life was seriously changed due to this bacteria.

1. Borriella burgdoferi is the spirochette bacteria that causes Lyme disease. The only other spirochette identified is Syphilis.
The "Lyme bacteria" found on the fossils is a spirochette bacteria like the two above, but it has not been identified as Borriella burgdoferi.
2. Lyme Disease was discovered in 1974 by Dr. Burgdoferi, hence the name. Children were suddenly becoming ill and had severe arthritis in Lyme Connecticut.
3. Plum Island is locate just off the coast of Lyme Connecticut and is mysterious and there is no way to know exactly what went on there. It will have an area 51 mystery.
I can post article after article stating a German Scientist named Erich Train who's specialty is Tick borne vectors.

Also, why is it illegal for physicians to treat Lyme as they see fit and are forced to adhere to CDC and IDSA guidelines. Both organizations have neglected to update diagnostic and treatment regimens.
Look up the Lyme bill signed in New York allowing physicians to treat Lyme without penalty.

 

[Red13]

We know HIV/AIDS was in Africa in the early 1900's. So this talk of it being a bioweapon is paranoia and propaganda. BBC News - Aids: Origin of pandemic 'was 1920s Kinshasa'
http://evolve.zoo.ox.ac.uk/Evolve/Oliver_Pybus_files/Faria et al (2014) Science.pdf

Archaeological evidence shows Lyme Disease in humans is at least thousands of years old and the disease itself is millions, so we know it wasn't engineered either:

Lyme Disease Bacteria Found In Tick Fossils Dating Back 15 Million Years
Iceman Mummy May Hold Earliest Evidence of Lyme Disease


I know these answers aren't as exciting as Nazi scientists and covert government operations. Sorry.

Also, when you, your wife/significant other, child or friend is severely ill with this disease and just getting properly diagnosed and treated is beyond difficult, maybe you will open your eyes.

 

[LouderVol]

Also, when you, your wife/significant other, child or friend is severely ill with this disease and just getting properly diagnosed and treated is beyond difficult, maybe you will open your eyes.

i don't think he is saying he doesn't believe Lyme is an issue, i think he is saying it wasn't a lab created disease used by the government to make people sick. jmo.

 

[Mtntrout]

i don't think he is saying he doesn't believe Lyme is an issue, i think he is saying it wasn't a lab created disease used by the government to make people sick. jmo.

This is exactly what I am saying, and I stand by it.

It was correctly stated that Lyme Disease is in more than the Eastern US. That it isn't confined to North America strongly indicates this isn't the product of a northeastern lab in the 20th century.


I have complete sympathy for those who suffer from the disease and am not trying to give you grief, Red. I'm just saying it isn't a bioweapon.

 

[Red13]

i don't think he is saying he doesn't believe Lyme is an issue, i think he is saying it wasn't a lab created disease used by the government to make people sick. jmo.

I get that.
The point I am trying to make is there are just as many articles stating it was. Do I believe it? Not 100% certain. I do wonder why the epidemic started in Lyme Connecticut just off the coast of Plum Island. I also wonder why a scientist specializing in tick borne vectors would be working there???!!

Would he look at this differently if he were sick. Yes!!!! Every single one of you would.

Also, the bacteria found in fossils is not Borriella burgdoferi. It is a spirochette, or spiral shaped bacteria, just like syphilis and Borriella burgdoferi is.

Unless you are experiencing this deadly infection, all you have is an opinion you got off Google.

 

[Red13]

This is exactly what I am saying, and I stand by it.

It was correctly stated that Lyme Disease is in more than the Eastern US. That it isn't confined to North America strongly indicates this isn't the product of a northeastern lab in the 20th century.


I have complete sympathy for those who suffer from the disease and am not trying to give you grief, Red. I'm just saying it isn't a bioweapon.

Patient 0 is in Lyme Connecticut. It has spread all over this world, yet the CDC and IDSA deny it. Why???

 

[Velo Vol]

If you have an inflammatory disease Gluten is your enemy. I am not allergic to gluten. I stopped it for 2 weeks and could tell a big difference. Eat single ingredient foods. By doing that you eliminate unnecessary monitors.

I tried gluten free for four months. It might have helped a bit, but not enough for me to conclusively say so.

Given the fluctuation of my inflammation and uncertainty on how long it might take food to trigger a reaction, I've found it very difficult to connect specific foods to symptoms.

 

[CSpindizzy]

Boy does your story sound familiar!! Definitely check DR. Horowitz' s symptom list.

I do not trust the lab at all! There is a Dr in North Georgia who is amazing at figuring out hard cases. Because no one could find anything I was certainly crazy! He treats symptoms and listens to the patient history.

Have you developed food intolerance? One food that is an inflammatory food is Gluten. My joints have improved greatly since I stopped it. It takes about two weeks and suddenly you will notice. I do not have a gluten allergy according to lab work.
I try my best to eat single ingredient foods.

I can PM you my doctors name and the things I am doing to help if you like.

Boy that brain fog is something isn't it?? And the fatigue!!!
I've been treated for almost 1 year now. I am no longer bed bound, I can form thoughts, joint pain better, fatigue is still an issue. On my best day I operate at 50%.
Please keep me updated. I would like to know how you are.

I will definitely dig deeper with the info you've given. Good to hear more substance and someone else who has been down this path to help point the right direction.

The memory/judgment part is killing me. From being around a lot of instances of dementia, I freak out seeing my own sudden issues. My wife has panicked over some things I've done and my forgetfulness of late. I hardly used my calendar in my phone...until now.

Food issues - my wife is big on diet, etc. so we're already strict on a lot of what we eat. I have yet to see any issues with intolerances.

I've had a family friend mention oregano oil as an aid. Heard that on helping with symptoms?

 

[LouderVol]

I get that.
The point I am trying to make is there are just as many articles stating it was. Do I believe it? Not 100% certain. I do wonder why the epidemic started in Lyme Connecticut just off the coast of Plum Island. I also wonder why a scientist specializing in tick borne vectors would be working there???!!

Would he look at this differently if he were sick. Yes!!!! Every single one of you would.

Also, the bacteria found in fossils is not Borriella burgdoferi. It is a spirochette, or spiral shaped bacteria, just like syphilis and Borriella burgdoferi is.

Unless you are experiencing this deadly infection, all you have is an opinion you got off Google.

you have said yourself it is a difficult disease to diagnose, even if that is what you are looking for. It makes sense that Lyme could easily have been going for all time and just been miss diagnosed. we still have diseases today, besides Lyme, being miss diagnosed, and new ones 'coming out'/being discovered and evolving naturally.

you are right i know nothing about the disease, which is why i am skeptical about all the information i read on it. in this case, weaponised Lyme, i read the support of it from the same websites that host other information i have debunked quite easily from other Google searches. the OP is much more valid than some of the websites, but i approached their information with a noted bias formed from prior research.

maybe the reason patient zero was identified was because you had the expert right there, not that patient zero was the actual first case.

 

[FLVOL_79]

Um..AIDS spread because people didn't know how it was transmitted or what it even was..

In fact scientists have been able to trace how AIDS came into America. It wasn't a government sponsored program but someone from Haiti.

 

[CSpindizzy]

Um..AIDS spread because people didn't know how it was transmitted or what it even was..

In fact scientists have been able to trace how AIDS came into America. It wasn't a government sponsored program but someone from Haiti.

It's still because someone didn't put paper down on the toilet seat before sitting down right?

 

[Vol737]

I tried gluten free for four months. It might have helped a bit, but not enough for me to conclusively say so.

Given the fluctuation of my inflammation and uncertainty on how long it might take food to trigger a reaction, I've found it very difficult to connect specific foods to symptoms.

Biologics help? Enbrel or Humira? I have fairly mild psoriasis but no real joint pain. Watching closely as I'm not sure how quickly it might progress.

 

[Red13]

I will definitely dig deeper with the info you've given. Good to hear more substance and someone else who has been down this path to help point the right direction.

The memory/judgment part is killing me. From being around a lot of instances of dementia, I freak out seeing my own sudden issues. My wife has panicked over some things I've done and my forgetfulness of late. I hardly used my calendar in my phone...until now.

Food issues - my wife is big on diet, etc. so we're already strict on a lot of what we eat. I have yet to see any issues with intolerances.

I've had a family friend mention oregano oil as an aid. Heard that on helping with symptoms?

Oregano is an excellent natural antibiotic. Beware it burns!!! Get some capsules to put it in.
Take vitamin C. I take 12,000 mg per day. Your individual dose is determined by BM consistency. If loose than too much.
Also take Zinc, Magnesium, glutathione, the broken down form of folic acid called methylfolate, Coq 10, and B12
I am on 7 antibiotics, Plaquenil, supplements, sleep meds
I have a port a Cath for IV s 3week
After the illness continues you may have Adrenal failure and hypothyroidism. I take cortisol and thyroid medicine.

I don't know what to tell you about that brain fog. I actually have an ICD 9 code for memory loss. So I tell Slice I have a legitimate CRS diagnosis. It's not just remembering things either, but your brain is fuzzy and dizzy. Sometimes I can't read, write or watch tv because I can't process it.

Have you heard of Yolanda Foster? She is a celebrity with Lyme disease.
Also Darryl Hall from Hall and Oats had it. There is a YouTube video interview with him.

Also YouTube Richard Horowitz Lyme disease

 

[Red13]

you have said yourself it is a difficult disease to diagnose, even if that is what you are looking for. It makes sense that Lyme could easily have been going for all time and just been miss diagnosed. we still have diseases today, besides Lyme, being miss diagnosed, and new ones 'coming out'/being discovered and evolving naturally.

you are right i know nothing about the disease, which is why i am skeptical about all the information i read on it. in this case, weaponised Lyme, i read the support of it from the same websites that host other information i have debunked quite easily from other Google searches. the OP is much more valid than some of the websites, but i approached their information with a noted bias formed from prior research.

maybe the reason patient zero was identified was because you had the expert right there, not that patient zero was the actual first case.

It is difficult to diagnose because the CDC and IDSA, both government agencies, do not have the diagnostic and treatment regimens in place for this disease.
If you look up Lyme on CDC.gov you will see completely different statistics than the doctors who are finding it outside their guidelines.

If a doctor suspects it, he completes the steps provided by CDC and IDSA. By doing this, it will be missed. Dr Richard Horowitz and others are pushing for change.

Have you listened to what Dr. Burgdoferi, the founder of Borriella burgdoferi, has to say about this disease? You tube it.

It has spread by many reasons such as through animal migration, blood transfusions, and by placenta.

Again, your opinion is your own, but I invite anyone to live with this illness for 1 week. Let it completely change your life, go to IV clinics, shoot your thighs with injections every day, live with side effects of meds,
Live this, talk to people with it,
Then and only then will I listen to your opinion.

 

[Red13]

Biologics help? Enbrel or Humira? I have fairly mild psoriasis but no real joint pain. Watching closely as I'm not sure how quickly it might progress.

Helped me for a few weeks and then stopped. I think it may have helped decrease inflammation, but after a while it didn't.

Have you tried Gluten free or Paleo?

 

[Orangeslice13]

you have said yourself it is a difficult disease to diagnose, even if that is what you are looking for. It makes sense that Lyme could easily have been going for all time and just been miss diagnosed. we still have diseases today, besides Lyme, being miss diagnosed, and new ones 'coming out'/being discovered and evolving naturally.

you are right i know nothing about the disease, which is why i am skeptical about all the information i read on it. in this case, weaponised Lyme, i read the support of it from the same websites that host other information i have debunked quite easily from other Google searches. the OP is much more valid than some of the websites, but i approached their information with a noted bias formed from prior research.

maybe the reason patient zero was identified was because you had the expert right there, not that patient zero was the actual first case.

At this point there is enough evidence for me to believe the government did this in both the HIV and Lyme cases. Whether or not it was malicious or accidental is a matter of debate. I lean towards accidental but they are still responcable imo. You clearly have a higher standard of proof. And I'm ok with that.

 

[Vol737]

Helped me for a few weeks and then stopped. I think it may have helped decrease inflammation, but after a while it didn't.

Have you tried Gluten free or Paleo?

Haven't gone gluten free (yet) but have really started researching Paleo. Gone pretty hard organic, intermittent fasting, try to avoid processed foods. If mine goes no further than where it is now I'll consider myself fortunate. Don't know how realistic that is. Hope you continue to improve.

 

[Velo Vol]

Biologics help? Enbrel or Humira? I have fairly mild psoriasis but no real joint pain. Watching closely as I'm not sure how quickly it might progress.

I haven't tried biologics . . . yet. I may soon as I'm running out of the older drugs to try.

A majority of people with psoriasis do not get arthritis. Hopefully that will be your case.

I'm one of the minority people that developed joint inflammation before noticing any skin problems, which made the diagnosis more difficult.

 

[malinoisvol]

Oregano is an excellent natural antibiotic. Beware it burns!!! Get some capsules to put it in.
Take vitamin C. I take 12,000 mg per day. Your individual dose is determined by BM consistency. If loose than too much.
Also take Zinc, Magnesium, glutathione, the broken down form of folic acid called methylfolate, Coq 10, and B12
I am on 7 antibiotics, Plaquenil, supplements, sleep meds
I have a port a Cath for IV s 3week
After the illness continues you may have Adrenal failure and hypothyroidism. I take cortisol and thyroid medicine.

I don't know what to tell you about that brain fog. I actually have an ICD 9 code for memory loss. So I tell Slice I have a legitimate CRS diagnosis. It's not just remembering things either, but your brain is fuzzy and dizzy. Sometimes I can't read, write or watch tv because I can't process it.

Have you heard of Yolanda Foster? She is a celebrity with Lyme disease.
Also Darryl Hall from Hall and Oats had it. There is a YouTube video interview with him.

Also YouTube Richard Horowitz Lyme disease

Thanks for posting all the info, Red.
Are there any foundations devoted to curing, treating, and diagnosing Lyme disease?

 

[Red13]

Thanks for posting all the info, Red.
Are there any foundations devoted to curing, treating, and diagnosing Lyme disease?

At this point no. We do have physicians pushing for change.
Yolanda Foster is the person with the loudest voice and the money to get something done.
There are so many clinics out there stating they can cure it. Unfortunately it is not the case.

There is a clinic in Germany called Klinik St Georg. They have treatments that have been successful. I am considering going, but the cost of a 14 day treatment is $17,500 not including travel and food.

 

[malinoisvol]

At this point no. We do have physicians pushing for change.
Yolanda Foster is the person with the loudest voice and the money to get something done.
There are so many clinics out there stating they can cure it. Unfortunately it is not the case.

There is a clinic in Germany called Klinik St Georg. They have treatments that have been successful. I am considering going, but the cost of a 14 day treatment is $17,500 not including travel and food.

My wife started educating me on this diseasse a few years ago. Your's and Max's post have educated us a bit more.
Our prayers are with you and your family.