Yahoo Sports lowers the boom on Miami

#251
#251
bamawriter said:
Miami should not be allowed to give football scholarships for 2 years. They can field a team, but it has to be made up of walkons. No bowl ban, no TV ban (that hurts the other schools too much), no death penalty. It's exactly what Miami deserves.
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Where do I sign?
 
#252
#252
MemphisCanes said:
Where do I sign?
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:lol: That's what I was thinking.

house divided said:
Let's not forget this is not just one school. It's one school getting in trouble for something that goes on at just about big ncaa school that has a top athletic program. Yeah what happened was stupid, but right now it's allegations not facts. And all coming from a convicted felon.I'm sure that telling the whole truth is what got him in trouble in the first place.
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Not a lawyer, but I think this is way past the allegation stage. Looks like this is established fact. 20,000 pages of corroborating evidence.

I know, you're a UM fan, though, so you need some hope.
 
#253
#253
bamawriter said:
Miami should not be allowed to give football scholarships for 2 years. They can field a team, but it has to be made up of walkons. No bowl ban, no TV ban (that hurts the other schools too much), no death penalty. It's exactly what Miami deserves.
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Way, way, way too light. If the allegations are true, only fitting punishment is disband the football team, with Miami able to apply for permission to field one in, say, 7-10 years.




MemphisCanes said:
If the 4 year statute of limitations holds, the NCAA will be able to look back to 2007-2008 (if I understand the rule correctly). Randy Shannon was in full effect then, and Shapiro himself says that the U was tightening restrictions between boosters and players. Although there are 12 current players implicated, I haven't heard what they're implicated for. That's roughly the amount implicated at UNC if I'm not mistaken.

If for some reason the NCAA can bring in the older issues, things look a lot worse for the U.
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Read elsewhere that the SOL is tolled (meaning extended) if there is a pattern of breaking of rules where last acts fall within the four years. Meaning that the NCAA can go back as far as the pattern takes them, i.e. the entire period.


house divided said:
Let's not forget this is not just one school. It's one school getting in trouble for something that goes on at just about big ncaa school that has a top athletic program. Yeah what happened was stupid, but right now it's allegations not facts. And all coming from a convicted felon.I'm sure that telling the whole truth is what got him in trouble in the first place.
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First, agree that right now its just allegations. The fact that former players and others are confirming gives it a high degree credibility, but still not proven.

Second, I don;t think the "this happens everywhere" defense is going to go very far given the extreme nature of what reportedly went on here. Especially given the scope.

You have to remember that Miami intentionally built, and then promoted, an image as a bit of a high flying, renegade program. Their sidelines typically populated by some unsavory folks, some celebrities of dubious character and distinction, strip club owners, etc. Miami marketed itself as the place to be for a pretty rough element, on its way to the NFL.

That marketing worked. But at some point it looks like the hype became the reality. And not just once or twice, or with one or two players. With dozens, and with coaches not just knowing but participating.

Miami is going to reap what it sowed. And it will and should be ugly.
 
#254
#254
HSVol said:
:lol: That's what I was thinking.



Not a lawyer, but I think this is way past the allegation stage. Looks like this is established fact. 20,000 pages of corroborating evidence.

I know, you're a UM fan, though, so you need some hope.
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You're right I am a UM fan and right again I'm hoping.Nope I'm praying that the hammer doesn't get dropped.
 
#255
#255
Da_End.gif


:lolabove:
 
#257
#257
lawgator1 said:
Way, way, way too light. If the allegations are true, only fitting punishment is disband the football team, with Miami able to apply for permission to field one in, say, 7-10 years.
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I can see, as a Florida fan, why you would want this punishment. And I thought there would be no possible way you could wriggle out of that 2013 game.






lawgator1 said:
Read elsewhere that the SOL is tolled (meaning extended) if there is a pattern of breaking of rules where last acts fall within the four years. Meaning that the NCAA can go back as far as the pattern takes them, i.e. the entire period.
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I've read where the SOL can be tolled under a "wilfull misconduct" clause. Haven't heard anything about an "ongoing pattern" exception or the like, although I think I hard John and Jimmy saying something to that effect yesterday afternoon. I don't have the definition of "wilfull misconduct" or any idea about it's application.



lawgator1 said:
First, agree that right now its just allegations. The fact that former players and others are confirming gives it a high degree credibility, but still not proven.

Second, I don;t think the "this happens everywhere" defense is going to go very far given the extreme nature of what reportedly went on here. Especially given the scope.

You have to remember that Miami intentionally built, and then promoted, an image as a bit of a high flying, renegade program. Their sidelines typically populated by some unsavory folks, some celebrities of dubious character and distinction, strip club owners, etc. Miami marketed itself as the place to be for a pretty rough element, on its way to the NFL.

That marketing worked. But at some point it looks like the hype became the reality. And not just once or twice, or with one or two players. With dozens, and with coaches not just knowing but participating.

Miami is going to reap what it sowed. And it will and should be ugly.
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Who knows if the NCAA will take into account Miami's reputation and the trouble it got into in the 90s. That was a long time ago, and there have been several regime changes since then. However, it appears as though some of the culture around the program may have never changed.
 
#259
#259
Here is a little dose of hope for our kind Miami friends, even if it's a bit of a stretch. Emmert has called the conference commish's in the wake of the A&M situation. The aim was to let the conferences know that the situation need not be canabalistic in nature. In other words, let's not destabilize all of college football 3 weeks before the season.

Why do I bring this up? I think Emmert knows a TV ban on Miami would destroy the ACC. If the U were to get that ban, the rest of the conference might be out the TV money, or at least reduced. This might make some teams want to start looking for a more stable and wealthier home.

The NCAA has said that a penalty like SMU which set the program back decades is not something they would likely do again. If they take the TV ban off the table too, then you might be looking at a stiffer than USC penalties instead of a completely wiped out program. I know it is not much, but the rest of the ACC might be enough to save ya.
 
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#260
#260
lawgator1 said:
Way, way, way too light. If the allegations are true, only fitting punishment is disband the football team, with Miami able to apply for permission to field one in, say, 7-10 years.
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A little extreme lawgator.. If you don't think this is going on at UF and just about every major BCS school you are deluisional. UM just got caught, could happen to UF just as quick.
 
#261
#261
MemphisCanes said:
I can see, as a Florida fan, why you would want this punishment. And I thought there would be no possible way you could wriggle out of that 2013 game.


I had forgotten about scheduling that game. Crap. Wonder if anyone has an open date we can make fit since by then ... well.... you know.





I've read where the SOL can be tolled under a "wilfull misconduct" clause. Haven't heard anything about an "ongoing pattern" exception or the like, although I think I hard John and Jimmy saying something to that effect yesterday afternoon. I don't have the definition of "wilfull misconduct" or any idea about it's application.


I don't know the particulars, either. But, if Miami's argument in the end is that "nanny nanny boo boo, you can only get us for some of this stuff" you can bet that when punishment time comes along the committee would take into account all of the other corroborated stuff.




Who knows if the NCAA will take into account Miami's reputation and the trouble it got into in the 90s. That was a long time ago, and there have been several regime changes since then. However, it appears as though some of the culture around the program may have never changed.


I'm not saying the committee would take into account their image. I mean, I take it into account in viewing that program as a blight on college athletics. As a college football fan, I don't deny that.

But the committee should not consider Miami's "reputation." That would be wrong.

In the end, if this stuff is true, Miami's reputation going into it won't really matter.
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Every time a program gets in deep hot water, we see these tired old arguments.

1) Everybody does it, we just got caught.

2) Let's compare something way less significant and try to come up with a reason we should get the same.

3) Everybody hates us because we are so good (we haven't seen that one, yet, but its coming).

4) Statute of limitations.

5) Its not fair to punish the kids and coaches there now for what was done in the past.

And then ultimately ....

We have a damn good tennis team.
 
#262
#262
house divided said:
Let's not forget this is not just one school. It's one school getting in trouble for something that goes on at just about big ncaa school that has a top athletic program. Yeah what happened was stupid, but right now it's allegations not facts. And all coming from a convicted felon.I'm sure that telling the whole truth is what got him in trouble in the first place.
Click to expand...

Stop with the "everyone does it" routine, and these are not "allegations" but instead is a confession
 
#263
#263
lawgator1 said:
Way, way, way too light. If the allegations are true, only fitting punishment is disband the football team, with Miami able to apply for permission to field one in, say, 7-10 years.







Read elsewhere that the SOL is tolled (meaning extended) if there is a pattern of breaking of rules where last acts fall within the four years. Meaning that the NCAA can go back as far as the pattern takes them, i.e. the entire period.





First, agree that right now its just allegations. The fact that former players and others are confirming gives it a high degree credibility, but still not proven.

Second, I don;t think the "this happens everywhere" defense is going to go very far given the extreme nature of what reportedly went on here. Especially given the scope.

You have to remember that Miami intentionally built, and then promoted, an image as a bit of a high flying, renegade program. Their sidelines typically populated by some unsavory folks, some celebrities of dubious character and distinction, strip club owners, etc. Miami marketed itself as the place to be for a pretty rough element, on its way to the NFL.

That marketing worked. But at some point it looks like the hype became the reality. And not just once or twice, or with one or two players. With dozens, and with coaches not just knowing but participating.

Miami is going to reap what it sowed. And it will and should be ugly.
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I am agreeing with everything you say here.

I would give them 2 years without football. Period. And then I might allow a 2 year JUCO squad, with all walk-ons. Yes, seriously. Put them in a JUCO League so that they at least have some experience when, what is effectively, a 4 year D1 ban is over.

I know the NCAA hates the death penalty because of what it did to the old SWC (did I get the conference right) when they hit SMU. And they dont like the 4 year TV ban because of the loss of revenue and exposure to the opposing schools (Mich State in the 70s) but something serious has to happen or nobody pays attention to the rules anymore.
 
#264
#264
lawgator1 said:
Every time a program gets in deep hot water, we see these tired old arguments.

1) Everybody does it, we just got caught.

2) Let's compare something way less significant and try to come up with a reason we should get the same.

3) Everybody hates us because we are so good (we haven't seen that one, yet, but its coming).

4) Statute of limitations.

5) Its not fair to punish the kids and coaches there now for what was done in the past.

And then ultimately ....

We have a damn good tennis team.
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I think this situation is safe on all counts:

1) aah, no. Everybody has some minor issues to deal with. And there is a rouge booster just waiting to happen, somewhere, but not everywhere.

2) this one will be fairly impossible. If Ed Martin hadnt died on the u of michigan basketball scandal, that would have been the closest one. and it would have been ugly.

3) yeah, well everybody hates miami because they are jerks, and all this cheating didnt even make them very good!

4) ding, got this one early!!

5) see #4

:peace2: :clapping: :clapping: :salute: :hi:

There are folks there that I feel bad for. And Im not all over this because it is miami. Im just tired of crap like this happening!!
 
#265
#265
I love it that the Gator fans are standing in judgment. Nice to see that these comments aren't coming from a place of bias.
 
#267
#267
MemphisCanes said:
I love it that the Gator fans are standing in judgment. Nice to see that these comments aren't coming from a place of bias.
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WTF. So if I were SpartanBill, or VolBill, my points would be more valid.


I was born and raised in Lansing, MI. I attended UF (after turning down a full ride to UT) and MSU.

Most importantly I am a College Football Fan. None of my points on this subject are built on Gator bias. They are built on 40 something years of loving the game of college football.

Im sorry I didnt post my resume' before posting on the subject.

And thanks for leaving your bias at the dinner table before bellying up to the keyboard also. :hi: :peace2:
 
#269
#269
house divided said:
I agree. I guess Miami is the only school with issues.
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all schools have issues to a certain extent. All of them are fighting off boosters who want to be dumbaszzes. Very few have problems as big as what the U is about to have.

I dont have any problems with the U as a university. I wish Randy Shannon was still there, I like the guy as a person and coach.

Now, if we want to talk about fsu, or u of michigan, i can broil up some good old fashioned hatred.
 
#270
#270
GatorBill said:
WTF. So if I were SpartanBill, or VolBill, my points would be more valid.


I was born and raised in Lansing, MI. I attended UF (after turning down a full ride to UT) and MSU.

Most importantly I am a College Football Fan. None of my points on this subject are built on Gator bias. They are built on 40 something years of loving the game of college football.

Im sorry I didnt post my resume' before posting on the subject.

And thanks for leaving your bias at the dinner table before bellying up to the keyboard also. :hi: :peace2:
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I didn't see you make any points, I apologize. I saw a post from LawGator and then you responded, parroting the points that he already made.

Mighty self-righteous words from a fan of a school who has two current players that were implicated in the yahoo sports story.
 
#271
#271
MemphisCanes said:
I'm not saying that is in any way a defense for Miami. It just makes me chuckle that the Gator fans in this thread are the ones screaming for The U's head the loudest.
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gotcha. Im absolutely not saying it as a Gator Fan. yall dont know me well here, yet, but I let my bias' go on things like this. Normally there are too many people getting punished for the misdeeds of others. But on this one, Im not sure that is going to be the case. There is a lot of "misdeeding" going on.

I dont want MiHammys football program to go away. That is not good for college football. But letting this go without proper punishment is not good for college football either.

:good!::good!:
 
#272
#272
I wonder if Florida will still be scared to schedule Miami when they have a roster full of walk-ons.
 
#273
#273
MemphisCanes said:
I didn't see you make any points, I apologize. I saw a post from LawGator and then you responded, parroting the points that he already made.

Mighty self-righteous words from a fan of a school who has two current players that were implicated in the yahoo sports story.
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we need a parrot smilie.
 
#275
#275
There is a rule on repeat offenders. They go back 15 years. Soo this even means the 90's. Out of all the Schools we have talked about this year the U is gonna get hit the hardest. No way they get off and they are still looking at the U's other sports for cheating. COMPLETE LACK OF INSTITUTIONAL CONTROL.
 
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