You're the Imam

#102
#102
lawgator1 said:
Not fair. I obviously think relatively speaking that Fox is decidedly right. But that is not my criticism as I have frequently also said that there are a number of conservatives whose thought process I admire, such as George Will.

My complaint is not that they are right wing, it is that they are stupdily so. See e.g. Glenn Beck.
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Gives us a few quotes that Beck has actually said, not quotes from the left where they just make a few things up.
 
#103
#103
lawgator1 said:
Not fair.
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Of course it is fair. You routinely parrot Olbermann, Maddow, Salon, et al.

My complaint is not that they are right wing, it is that they are stupdily so. See e.g. Glenn Beck.
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I've been waiting for this. Please choose one ideal that Beck is advocating and demonstrate that it is "stupid", ill-informed, or poorly reasoned. I'm not asking for a comment on his style or that his presentations annoy you. I'm not asking you to nitpick some obscure side issue... but rather something real and meaningful. You choose the topic but keep it narrow enough for a sensible discussion.

Just one thing is all I'm asking for. You throw terms like "stupid" and make "talking point" type comments all the time. Let's actually get to the root of one of your objections... how about it?
 
#104
#104
emainvol said:
It's a fair statement though, hell there have been plenty of protests in Murfreesboro over the building of a mosque.
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I am saying that he, like LG, is stateing the mind set of the protestors. That is wrong of them to do.
Also, I do not believe that I have seen either defend their right to protest.
 
#105
#105
emainvol said:
It's a fair statement though, hell there have been plenty of protests in Murfreesboro over the building of a mosque.
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Sure there have been, there have also been people protesting in support of the mosque. Personally a mosque being built in Murfreesboro doesn't really concern me in the least.

The difference between the mosque in the 'boro and the center in NYC near ground zero is the intent. One is simply a place for men and women to worship according to their beliefs and the other (NYC) is altogether different. The targeted opening date to coincide with 9-11 and built where the rubble of the twin towers fell. These two facts don't jibe with their stated goal of building bridges between America and Islam, in fact these actions are quite contrary to their stated goal IMO.

Build this center somewhere else, where it doesn't have the stigma of 3,000 murdered attached to it, that would be a gesture of good will and I would support this center. The question of their constitutionally protected rights aren't in question and have nothing to do with this debate as far as I'm concerned.
 
#106
#106
droski said:
what's your evidence that this wouldn't be meaningful to terrorists? wishful thinking?
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"Meaningful."

What does that mean?

And, is your contention that people who are already terrorists will be more terroristic because of it? Or is it that a person who is not a terrorist will become one because of it?

I'd like an ounce of proof of either before you just assure all of us its "obvious."

The argument that cultural center is part of some 600 year old tradition of building mosques at the site of conquering foes is wonderfully empty and circular. You realize that the people proposing it already have one 14 blocks away and that they've been talking about doing this for awhile with the JCC, of all people, who support their effort.

What a bunch of hysterical crap this whole thing is. It makes me sad that seemingly intelligent people like yourself are unable to see what is really going on here. Don't be duped by the fear mongers.
 
#107
#107
T-TownVol said:
I am saying that he, like LG, is stateing the mind set of the protestors. That is wrong of them to do.
Also, I do not believe that I have seen either defend their right to protest.
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Quite the contrary, I've stated before they have every right to voice their first amendment rights and protest away. My beef is with people not protesting their real problem with the mosque.
 
#108
#108
I sell it while I can and make $$$$$$$............. when the new wtc is built too much space will be open. I would take the money and run!
 
#109
#109
lawgator1 said:
"Meaningful."

What does that mean?

And, is your contention that people who are already terrorists will be more terroristic because of it? Or is it that a person who is not a terrorist will become one because of it?

I'd like an ounce of proof of either before you just assure all of us its "obvious."

The argument that cultural center is part of some 600 year old tradition of building mosques at the site of conquering foes is wonderfully empty and circular. You realize that the people proposing it already have one 14 blocks away and that they've been talking about doing this for awhile with the JCC, of all people, who support their effort.

What a bunch of hysterical crap this whole thing is. It makes me sad that seemingly intelligent people like yourself are unable to see what is really going on here. Don't be duped by the fear mongers.
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It is proof positive to each and every muslim that terrorism works.

Islam itself is based on fear.
 
#110
#110
lawgator1 said:
"Meaningful."

What does that mean?

And, is your contention that people who are already terrorists will be more terroristic because of it? Or is it that a person who is not a terrorist will become one because of it?

I'd like an ounce of proof of either before you just assure all of us its "obvious."

The argument that cultural center is part of some 600 year old tradition of building mosques at the site of conquering foes is wonderfully empty and circular. You realize that the people proposing it already have one 14 blocks away and that they've been talking about doing this for awhile with the JCC, of all people, who support their effort.

What a bunch of hysterical crap this whole thing is. It makes me sad that seemingly intelligent people like yourself are unable to see what is really going on here. Don't be duped by the fear mongers.
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yes it is my contention that a terrorist will absolutely become more convinced that what he is doing is right. every terrorist isn't some sort of madman who doesn't have any guilt for the loss of innocent human life. a mosque rising from the loss of that human life is something that could easily make those on the fence decide that they are doing the will of allah.

i agree that a % of the people against this are anti muslim, but like the tea party you seem to take that minority and assume that's all the movement is about and ignore the correct ideas coming out.
 
#111
#111
lumberjack4 said:
Quite the contrary, I've stated before they have every right to voice their first amendment rights and protest away. My beef is with people not protesting their real problem with the mosque.
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aaand...you have talked to them?
 
#112
#112
gsvol said:
It is proof positive to each and every muslim that terrorism works.

Islam itself is based on fear.
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You are sick.


droski said:
yes it is my contention that a terrorist will absolutely become more convinced that what he is doing is right. every terrorist isn't some sort of madman who doesn't have any guilt for the loss of innocent human life. a mosque rising from the loss of that human life is something that could easily make those on the fence decide that they are doing the will of allah.

i agree that a % of the people against this are anti muslim, but like the tea party you seem to take that minority and assume that's all the movement is about and ignore the correct ideas coming out.
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That's all speculation.

And do you realize what you are trading for that theory?

You are saying that, because of our intangible fear and speculation that one day someone will view this as a symbol of victory then we are going to pressure you not to build this where you want to.

That, my friend, is letting the terroroists win. It is allowing speculative fear to dictate how we treat each other, how we live our lives, what we think is okay to say and do, and where to say and do it.
 
#113
#113
T-TownVol said:
aaand...you have talked to them?
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Yes, I live in Alabama where religious intolerance is a way of life. A much sizable portion of the protest than you apparently want to believe is based on anti-muslim sentiment. The protest of mosque locations nationwide is proof of this.
 
#114
#114
lawgator1 said:
That's all speculation.

And do you realize what you are trading for that theory?

You are saying that, because of our intangible fear and speculation that one day someone will view this as a symbol of victory then we are going to pressure you not to build this where you want to.

That, my friend, is letting the terroroists win. It is allowing speculative fear to dictate how we treat each other, how we live our lives, what we think is okay to say and do, and where to say and do it.
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it is not just speculation. it's fact. i dont' think you understand radical islam. mosques being built on the grounds of conquered infidel enemies is a many centuries old practice.

letting the terrorists win is bowing to the fear of idiots like obama who don't want to offend anyone. i'd be completely with you if they wanted to built this mosque in times square or in hollywood.

you haven't asked yourself why these islamic leaders are still pushing hard for this mosque despite the backlash if they truly just want a place for tolerance and to worship? why is this site so IMPORTANT TO THEM?
 
#115
#115
lumberjack4 said:
Yes, I live in Alabama where religious intolerance is a way of life. A much sizable portion of the protest than you apparently want to believe is based on anti-muslim sentiment. The protest of mosque locations nationwide is proof of this.
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BS.....don't take the actions of a very few and throw a blanket over all......ie: LG
 
#116
#116
lawgator1 said:
You are sick.




That's all speculation.

And do you realize what you are trading for that theory?

You are saying that, because of our intangible fear and speculation that one day someone will view this as a symbol of victory then we are going to pressure you not to build this where you want to.

That, my friend, is letting the terroroists win. It is allowing speculative fear to dictate how we treat each other, how we live our lives, what we think is okay to say and do, and where to say and do it.
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I think that I hear a fife and drum playing in the background......this is hog wash
 
#119
#119
droski said:
don't think that the radical islam, american haters, aren't a very sizable portion of those funding this mosque too.
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No doubt that some want or are trying to. Its up to the government to deny those funds. If the mosque can't get enough clean money to build their building it shouldn't be built. I'd say the same thing for a Church of Scientology, private school, or a skyscraper.
 
#121
#121
droski said:
it is not just speculation. it's fact. i dont' think you understand radical islam. mosques being built on the grounds of conquered infidel enemies is a many centuries old practice.

letting the terrorists win is bowing to the fear of idiots like obama who don't want to offend anyone. i'd be completely with you if they wanted to built this mosque in times square or in hollywood.

you haven't asked yourself why these islamic leaders are still pushing hard for this mosque despite the backlash if they truly just want a place for tolerance and to worship? why is this site so IMPORTANT TO THEM?
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I dunno' man.

Your "you don't know radical Islam" comment to me sort of pales in comparison to the fact that someone who organized and runs a JCC near this site is championing their cause. I kind of tend to give her a lot more credibility on being right on this subject than blanket statements by unqualified people about what they think is behind radical Islam.

And in fact that is part of the problem here. Post 9/11, a lot of people have emerged trying to claim to be experts on that. And they aren't. In fact their knowledge is weak and twisted to suit a preexisting political agenda. But they write gripping stuff that makes people freak out.

Exhibibit "A" being gsvol.
 
#122
#122
lumberjack4 said:
No doubt that some want or are trying to. Its up to the government to deny those funds. If the mosque can't get enough clean money to build their building it shouldn't be built. I'd say the same thing for a Church of Scientology, private school, or a skyscraper.
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how to you determine what is clean money and what isn't? some of the sauidi royal family indirectly (some directly to) gave money to al queada. do you exclude them? it's hard to know what is in someone's heart of hearts.
 
#123
#123
lumberjack4 said:
No doubt that some want or are trying to. Its up to the government to deny those funds. If the mosque can't get enough clean money to build their building it shouldn't be built. I'd say the same thing for a Church of Scientology, private school, or a skyscraper.
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You want the government telling a private school or a private company they can not build until they prove they have the funds?
 
#124
#124
I can't imagine this mosque getting built. Construction in NYC is done almost exclusively by union contractors and if one refuses to work, the others will follow suit. I don't see the Park51 group being able to bring in a non-union construction crew.
 
#125
#125
lawgator1 said:
I dunno' man.

Your "you don't know radical Islam" comment to me sort of pales in comparison to the fact that someone who organized and runs a JCC near this site is championing their cause. I kind of tend to give her a lot more credibility on being right on this subject than blanket statements by unqualified people about what they think is behind radical Islam.

And in fact that is part of the problem here. Post 9/11, a lot of people have emerged trying to claim to be experts on that. And they aren't. In fact their knowledge is weak and twisted to suit a preexisting political agenda. But they write gripping stuff that makes people freak out.

Exhibibit "A" being gsvol.
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you can cut the irony with a knife....this is an instant classic
 
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