Colorado Springs nightclub shooting

#101
#101
C-south said:
From what I’ve read the person had multiple issues that should’ve at least triggered the state’s red flag laws. Maybe the better question is why his felony charges were squashed. Regardless the system failed….again. Of course more laws that only affect law abiding citizens would’ve prevented this.
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Yep
 
#102
#102
C-south said:
Would it be a a hate crime if a gay shot up any other bar? Intent doesn’t mean s*** after the fact especially when this could’ve been prevented if there wasn’t a failure of not acting on existing laws.
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If a gay person shot up people because of their hatred of them, then yes.
 
#105
#105
K-town Vol Fan said:
Bomb threat, police stand-off, whole 9 yards - can still legally purchase a gun.

Yeah, gun laws are totally fine.
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Read the posts above yours. Sounds like they are implying the laws would have flagged his purchase...... Had his original case been adjudicated and not dropped/sealed. Why would you drop a case like this? Our judicial system itself is the cause for so much of this crap.
 
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#106
#106
zeppelin128 said:
Did you forget who you were talking to? In what world have I said "restrict all guns". Or punish all civilians and restrict their rights. You know me better than that.

And did that person target just the two straight folks at said bar, and ignore everyone else? No.
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No, I specifically stated the dead as last reported, including the gay and transgender victims.

The point is this particular case isnt a LGBT only issue. Whether it was his intent or not to kill only LGBT people only doesnt really matter to me. He killed 5 people, hopefully that number hasnt risen since I last saw it.

Every gun law I have seen do restrict all guns for all people. There is no way it wouldnt. Just look at the red flag laws. You dont need proof, you dont need a conviction, you just need an upset person. So it will be more than crazy people like this guy that get trapped by red flag laws. Especially as there us already a push to expand the existing red flag laws.

We are all innocent until we are all priven guilty. Anything that cant pass that basic test is an infringement, and on more than just the 2A.
 
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#107
#107
zeppelin128 said:
Why target the only gay club in Colorado Springs?
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They were hosting an event. Bigger crowd than usual. Maybe a specific person was going to be there. Maybe he had a personal conflict with the bar beyond it being a gay bar.

I have read conflicting stories of it being a pure drag show, or a burlesque show that included some drag performers.

I never liked any of the hate law/crimes. He killed 5 people. In my book that 5 life sentences. But now he will get 5 life sentences and 3 hate crime charges? How is that equality for the two other victims. Why does he get a lesser charge for those 2 murders? The legal system is going to have to justify to those 2 families why their losses matter less than the other 3.
 
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#108
#108
LouderVol said:
They were hosting an event. Bigger crowd than usual. Maybe a specific person was going to be there. Maybe he had a personal conflict with the bar beyond it being a gay bar.

I have read conflicting stories of it being a pure drag show, or a burlesque show that included some drag performers.

I never liked any of the hate law/crimes. He killed 5 people. In my book that 5 life sentences. But now he will get 5 life sentences and 3 hate crime charges? How is that equality for the two other victims. Why does he get a lesser charge for those 2 murders? The legal system is going to have to justify to those 2 families why their losses matter less than the other 3.
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For all we know he was upset because he wasn't part of the show. I don't believe either he or his mother have made any statement to LE. Since we don't have volumes of Social media post where he or his mother railed against LBGTQ+, either he didn't or he didn't have social media accounts.
It does seem that everybody is jumping (since we don't seem to have any actual proof) to conclusions that this was sexually related when for all we know, it was the largest crowd he could find late Saturday Night/Sunday Morning to create mayhem. We don't even have any witness statements that he shouted anything during the event. The only video and documents released show a very mentally disturb man, more than a year ago, that should have been forced into some level of treatment and was not.
 
#109
#109
LouderVol said:
They were hosting an event. Bigger crowd than usual. Maybe a specific person was going to be there. Maybe he had a personal conflict with the bar beyond it being a gay bar.

I have read conflicting stories of it being a pure drag show, or a burlesque show that included some drag performers.

I never liked any of the hate law/crimes. He killed 5 people. In my book that 5 life sentences. But now he will get 5 life sentences and 3 hate crime charges? How is that equality for the two other victims. Why does he get a lesser charge for those 2 murders? The legal system is going to have to justify to those 2 families why their losses matter less than the other 3.
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Ehhh....motive determines punishment all the time in our legal system, and it's not unique to hate crimes. Nobody should interpret this to mean that it has anything to do with the value of the victims.
 
#111
#111
n_huffhines said:
Ehhh....motive determines punishment all the time in our legal system, and it's not unique to hate crimes. Nobody should interpret this to mean that it has anything to do with the value of the victims.
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the hate crime statutes are stupid. The rationale for the crime should be an aggravating factor at sentencing and nothing more.
 
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#113
#113
n_huffhines said:
Ehhh....motive determines punishment all the time in our legal system, and it's not unique to hate crimes. Nobody should interpret this to mean that it has anything to do with the value of the victims.
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I think it's hard to argue here that he didnt intend to kill people. I dont know what other intent there is here.

He may not have intended to kill straight people, but seems if he was willing to target LGBT he would also be willing to target straight people who supported them. And you could apply the broad brush of hate to this. But you wont see it happen.

And that still leads to the state prosecuting the crimes differently, which is wrong.
 
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#115
#115
LouderVol said:
I think it's hard to argue here that he didnt intend to kill people. I dont know what other intent there is here.

He may not have intended to kill straight people, but seems if he was willing to target LGBT he would also be willing to target straight people who supported them. And you could apply the broad brush of hate to this. But you wont see it happen.

And that still leads to the state prosecuting the crimes differently, which is wrong.
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Intent is not motive.

No idea why people are so concerned about this. It will make no practical difference in the end.
 
#116
#116
n_huffhines said:
Intent is not motive.

No idea why people are so concerned about this. It will make no practical difference in the end.
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Except in how the law is carried out. As it stands the law will punish this man differently for killing some people rather than others. That bothers me.

I cant think if an actual applicable situation where this distinction you are trying to make should matter under the premise of us all being equal under the law. Only thing I can see is if some were minors.
 
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#117
#117
LouderVol said:
Except in how the law is carried out. As it stands the law will punish this man differently for killing some people rather than others. That bothers me.

I cant think if an actual applicable situation where this distinction you are trying to make should matter under the premise of us all being equal under the law. Only thing I can see is if some were minors.
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If you kill for $, you'll get more time than somebody who killed because temporary insanity. You'll get more time for killing in a crime of passion than you would killing somebody who abused your love one.

You couldn't think of any motives that determine level of punishment? I could go on.
 
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#118
#118
n_huffhines said:
If you kill for $, you'll get more time than somebody who killed because temporary insanity. You'll get more time for killing in a crime of passion than you would killing somebody who abused your love one.

You couldn't think of any motives that determine level of punishment? I could go on and on.
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Are those all "hate crimes"?
 
#125
#125
The entire thread was built on a divisive lie. That is why I didn't post in it. What happened at the nightclub was tragic. What happened in many of place that have this type of loss is tragic. One is not greater than the other. They are all tragic. Some act like it.

Beetlejuice, Lori Lightfoot, tried to act unhinged about this because she thought she had found her golden jewel that was in her favor. Meanwhile over 600 people have been killed due to gun violence in her city this year and mostly silence.

This is the left trying to make another argument to further their agenda.
 
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