Lipscomb dismisses top 3 point shooter in D-I

#101
#101
Jackson_Harris said:
Yes, the different levels of heaven. I read a book on that back 3-4 years ago. Seemed a little weird to me but maybe? I'm trying not to judge...except for San Diego..who I have determined is going to be the only drunk, part-time C of C, lawyer, Vol fan, in heaven.
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I just want in. Not worried about levels. I'll fly around and figure it out.
 
#102
#102
GreveHaller said:
seriously, in my 47 years I've never heard one preacher ever say that. I've never even heard another church member say that
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Wow! Bet you didn't go to a small (100-150 member) rural Tennessee Church of Christ in the 60's and 70's. We used to take flack from the other kids at school about it. Along with the liquor store joke, this was one of the standard C of C jokes back in the day.

Seriously, I am really glad they got away from teaching that...it made me extremely uncomfortable.

A man went to heaven and was being shown around by St. Peter.
As they went from cloud to cloud they came to various doors which
St. Peter would open. One showed a large group rolling on the floor
and talking in tongues. "Our Pentecostals" he said..
Next was a serious ritual. "Our Jewish persuasion" he replied.
Then another ritualistic service. "Our Catholics".
At the next cloud, he didn't open the door but instead put his
forefinger to his lips in the hush motion and they both tip toed
past.. Once past, the man asked what that was all about !?
"Those are the Church of Christ", he explained. "They think they are the
only one's here".
 
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#103
#103
Gluttony is banned in the same sentence as drunkenness. Some people i grew up with said that a single drink made you drunk (obviously they have never drank anything or they would see the absurdity of this) so I would ask does one bite of food make you a glutton? The funny thing is I don't see a problem with drinking a beer or two, but having never been around it at all I have never really developed a taste for it. Most of my nonCoC friends probably think it is a religious stand but in reality I just don't like it.
 
#104
#104
Jackson_Harris said:
Wow! Bet you didn't go to a small (100-150 member) rural Tennessee Church of Christ in the 60's and 70's. We used to take flack from the other kids at school about it. Along with the liquor store joke, this was one of the standard C of C jokes back in the day.

Seriously, I am really gald they got away from teaching that...it made me extremely uncomfortable.

A man went to heaven and was being shown around by St. Peter.
As they went from cloud to cloud they came to various doors which
St. Peter would open. One showed a large group rolling on the floor
and talking in tongues. "Our Pentecostals" he said..
Next was a serious ritual. "Our Jewish persuasion" he replied.
Then another ritualistic service. "Our Catholics".
At the next cloud, he didn't open the door but instead put his
forefinger to his lips in the hush motion and they both tip toed
past.. Once past, the man asked what that was all about !?
"Those are the Church of CHrist", he explained. "They think they are the
only one's here".
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rural? no. In downtown Nashville.

small? yes. About 150 and down to about 50 when I left about 98
 
#105
#105
Jackson_Harris said:
Are you a teetotaler, in moderation, or a drunk, SD?


I can't believe that no one has yet stepped up and said, "Yes, we are the only ones going to heaven" That was widely believed 30 years ago. Did they teach that in your church?
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I am not a drunk, but definitely enjoy social moderate drinking
 
#107
#107
Jackson_Harris said:
Are you a teetotaler, in moderation, or a drunk, SD?


I can't believe that no one has yet stepped up and said, "Yes, we are the only ones going to heaven" That was widely believed 30 years ago. Did they teach that in your church?
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Some in the CoC do believe that. I think many of those that do believe that are more sheltered, and possibly less educated. I'm 26, grew up in the CoC, much of my immediate and extended family are members of the CoC, and I don't think of any of them that truly believe that only members of the CoC can do to heaven, no exceptions.

GreveHaller said:
the whole wine and beer thing does intrigue me, JH. My goal one day is that the next time I'm in Germany I want to try to attend a coc church there and try to get their philosophy on drinking beer. For us over here, beer/wine are frowned upon and considered sinful but that's also because we abuse it (for lack of a better term). If we're gonna drink beer, by gosh we're getting drunk and stupid. On the other side is the European countries that view beer/wine much like we do iced tea. Its just another beverage. As we know, the Europeans are much less religious than us so the question in my mind is beer drinking a bit more tolerated because they dont abuse it like we do or is it because they are less religious/more open to beer/wine than us.
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I think alcohol is frowned upon here for two reasons. (1) It is often abused and (2) seeing a brother or sister drinking alcohol could cause a brother or sister to fall.

If you are in the privacy of your own home, having a beer when you come home from work or a glass of wine/whiskey in the evening, I see nothing wrong with this. Now if I were drinking at a bar or restaurant, and an impressionable member saw this, they may rationalize that 'if my brother in Christ is out drinking, then I guess it's okay for me to do'. If they then indulge too much and abuse it and/or make bad (sinful) decisions as a result, then I can see an issue here.

Like most things, context, intent, and moderation are key elements in deciding whether or not a particular act or behavior would be frowned upon by God or His followers.

In America, alcohol is considered more taboo than in most of Europe. Therefore, Europeans are less likely to be influenced the way that many Americans are.
 
#112
#112
GreveHaller said:
why?
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He probably went to your same church....lol...


My church went the same direction sounds like as yours. We had 150ish members in the 70's. They were unable to hang on to any of the youth due to the extreme conservative views. And they basically ended up going out of business. Sold the church building and merged with another small rural C of C
 
#115
#115
I thought the you're going to hell if you're not CoC was crazy growing up in it. Then my wife and I started attending a more liberal church. We both found out that our families really believe that crap. My grandmother told me it didn't say Church of Christ in the phone book so it wasn't an acceptable church. My wife's grandmother told her God wants her to go to Northview Church of Christ. That line of thinking is still really prevalent today. I know of several people that were kicked out of churches because of some sin, not really sure how that works. I thought they were in the soul saving business not the condemning people to hell business
 
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#118
#118
Jackson_Harris said:
He probably went to your same church....lol...


My church went the same direction sounds like as yours. We had 150ish members in the 70's. They were unable to hang on to any of the youth due to the extreme conservative views. And they basically ended up going out of business. Sold the church building and merged with another small rural C of C
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it wasnt the teachings that drove mine down it was the fact that cities became more suburban and less urban in the 70s and 80s. It was more convenient to go to a church (any denomination) that was in the neighborhood than to drive all the way downtown. Plus you knew most of the members because of the lived near you. Sad but that's just a fact of life for growing cities.
 
#119
#119
Jackson_Harris said:
Have you ever seen the movie A Few Good Men? In the courtroom scene at the end, they discuss the rules in the Marine handbook. There are official rules ( the important stuff); and then there are the unwritten rules...like how to find the mess hall, code reds, etc.

If the C of C chooses to not have instrumental music, I am 100% fine with that. If a church chooses to sacrifice animals, I am 100% fine with that. To me, those type issues are just little details similar to finding the mess hall and code reds.

Where I have a problem with the C of C is that they judge the others to be wrong. I am not saying all C of C do that. However, I attended for 20 plus years and most in my church judged the others to be wrong.

And the music is just one example; there are many. My C of C believed that you had to be dunked to be bapitized. Sprinkling was no good. Yes, I know the story about going down into the river. But if it was so important that it would keep you out of heaven, would they not have made that really clear in the New Testament? Once again, I am fine with the C of C dunking. But don't judge the others.

In general, the Calvinites got zoomed in on a bunch of little details that don't amount to a hill of beans. There is an old saying that reads, "Avoid having your ego so close to your position that, when your position fails, your ego goes with it." That is where the C of C stands today. They have believed that old garbage for so long that now that the position has failed, they are floundering.
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The biggest problem with the perception of the CoC is that we all "judge others". I have found this to be mostly false. While we do strive for perfection in both our individual Christian journey and in our worship, those that openly and condescendingly judge others are in the minority. Just like a vocal minority of Vols fans give the majority of us a bad name nationally, the majority of members of the CoC are often incorrectly stereotyped.

Personally, I do believe that our methods of worship are the most similar to the teaching in the New Testament, I also believe that if you focus only on that and live like a heathen the other 6 days of the week, then what you do on Sunday is irrelevant. While I don't believe God will judge us with a checklist, I do believe that in addition to judging our hearts, He will factor in our interpretation, understanding, and application of the Word.

re: Baptism by immersion only; taken directly from church-of-christ.org:
"Why does the church of Christ baptize only by immersion?

The word baptize comes from the Greek word "baptizo" and literally means, "to dip, to immerse, to plunge." In addition to the literal meaning of the word, immersion is practiced because it was the practice of the church in apostolic times. Still further, only immersion conforms to the description of baptisms as given by the apostle Paul in Romans 6:3-5 where he speaks of it as a burial and resurrection."
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And while the "better safe than sorry" line is tired, I still subscribe to it. If baptism by sprinkling is acceptable, great for all those who were sprinkled rather than dunked! If, however, God does not accept baptism by sprinkling, I am still covered (pardon the pun) by His grace.
 
#120
#120
It used to be communion every Sunday morning...and that was a big deal. But it was grape juice. I found out a lot later on that many denominations don't believe that you have to have juice and bread every single Sunday. Just every now and then and on the big ones...like Easter. To me, it is yet another of many 'tit for tat' details
 
#122
#122
etmccreary said:
The biggest problem with the perception of the CoC is that we all "judge others". I have found this to be mostly false. While we do strive for perfection in both our individual Christian journey and in our worship, those that openly and condescendingly judge others are in the minority. Just like a vocal minority of Vols fans give the majority of us a bad name nationally, the majority of members of the CoC are often incorrectly stereotyped.

Personally, I do believe that our methods of worship are the most similar to the teaching in the New Testament, I also believe that if you focus only on that and live like a heathen the other 6 days of the week, then what you do on Sunday is irrelevant. While I don't believe God will judge us with a checklist, I do believe that in addition to judging our hearts, He will factor in our interpretation, understanding, and application of the Word.

re: Baptism by immersion only; taken directly from church-of-christ.org:


And while the "better safe than sorry" line is tired, I still subscribe to it. If baptism by sprinkling is acceptable, great for all those who were sprinkled rather than dunked! If, however, God does not accept baptism by sprinkling, I am still covered (pardon the pun) by His grace.
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Excellent! I have 0% problem with any of that. If there if any doubt whatsoever in your mind that it is important, then I highly encourage you to be dunked.

The judging of the others was the greatest concern I had. Sounds like they have backed off that. Not to judge, but it sounds like you are heaven bound and I congratulate you on that!
 
#123
#123
etmccreary said:
The biggest problem with the perception of the CoC is that we all "judge others". I have found this to be mostly false. While we do strive for perfection in both our individual Christian journey and in our worship, those that openly and condescendingly judge others are in the minority. Just like a vocal minority of Vols fans give the majority of us a bad name nationally, the majority of members of the CoC are often incorrectly stereotyped.

Personally, I do believe that our methods of worship are the most similar to the teaching in the New Testament, I also believe that if you focus only on that and live like a heathen the other 6 days of the week, then what you do on Sunday is irrelevant. While I don't believe God will judge us with a checklist, I do believe that in addition to judging our hearts, He will factor in our interpretation, understanding, and application of the Word.

re: Baptism by immersion only; taken directly from church-of-christ.org:


And while the "better safe than sorry" line is tired, I still subscribe to it. If baptism by sprinkling is acceptable, great for all those who were sprinkled rather than dunked! If, however, God does not accept baptism by sprinkling, I am still covered (pardon the pun) by His grace.
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This will sound harsh, but only meant to make a point.
By the rationale above, one may have a great relationship with God, but God may not want him in Heaven because he hasn't been baptized.However, a rabbi/priest/preacher, (that could be a child molester at the time/alcoholic/pain pill abuser,etc) dunking someone in the water is the deciding factor? By that rationale, a man can have a relationship with God for an hour, get baptized, die and go to Heaven, but a man with a 50 yr relationship with God wouldn't get in because he wasn't baptized. That just doesn't make sense for the God I put my faith in.
 
#124
#124
Jackson_Harris said:
Excellent! I have 0% problem with any of that. If there if any doubt whatsoever in your mind that it is important, then I highly encourage you to be dunked.

The judging of the others was the greatest concern I had. Sounds like they have backed off that. Not to judge, but it sounds like you are heaven bound and I congratulate you on that!
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Not that it no longer exists, but in my experience, there is less judging now.

I have PLENTY I need to work on, lol, but I certainly hope so (and thank you!).
 
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