Official "eat crow" because Butch was hired here thread

[Orange_Crush]

Jesus Christ. I am not going to get into recruit by recruit and defend Dooley. I merely try to give context (play devil's advocate) around here. VN is like an angry mob with pitchforks.

I will say, that he recruited pretty damn well here given the condition of the program. He out recruited Lane and Fulmer in his last four years.

I am just as puzzled about Bell and others. I also know Croom's mother said that Dooley is the reason Croom is here.

We are taking in all the data, weighing it, and trying to come to the most logical position. Multiple recruits and recruit family members have stated that they would not be here if CDD was still here. Some have given specific reasons why they didn't like him.

The conversation is about CBJ's (<- Edit; sorry) "lucky" recruiting so far. So, if you don't want multiple avenues of evidence to oppose your position, you may just not want to give the position.

Again... The most logical thing for us to do is to gather as much information as we can, and then weigh it against your intuition.

No pitchforks.

 

[PKT_VOL]

Interesting...

And, they do compute if CBJ made up a huge amount of ground that CDD had lost, and done it quickly. All things considered, that is the most likely.

I never implied that he didn't like CBJ better than Dooley. In fact, I think it is clear that he does.

I just said, let's not act like he was not a UT lean regardless of who was coaching.

 

[PKT_VOL]

We are taking in all the data, weighing it, and trying to come to the most logical position. Multiple recruits and recruit family members have stated that they would not be here if CDD was still here. Some have given specific reasons why they didn't like him.

The conversation is about CBJ's (<- Edit; sorry) "lucky" recruiting so far. So, if you don't want multiple avenues of evidence to oppose your position, you may just not want to give the position.

Again... The most logical thing for us to do is to gather as much information as we can, and then weigh it against your intuition.

No pitchforks.

Good lord.

"Lucky" in that sense that he had such a good player, who was a legacy and lives in Knoxville.

The point was that he would not be committed to us, bleeding orange, shutting down recruiting, and recruiting for us if he lived in Athens and was a UGA legacy.

You guys are seriously over thinking this. Just playing devils advocate here.

 

[Orange_Crush]

I never implied that he didn't like CBJ better than Dooley. In fact, I think it is clear that he does.

I just said, let's not act like he was not a UT lean regardless of who was coaching.

Why not? He said he wasn't. Besides intuition, please give a logical reason for him or his family to lie about it.

(And that's not "all you said". You said CDD was very unlucky, and that CBJ has been very lucky. Evidence has been shown that CDD made his own luck in recruiting. Evidence has been shown that CBJ is making his own luck in recruiting.)


Now, I'm not hating on CDD. From my perspective it's a conversation about CBJ.

 

[butchna]

Jesus Christ. I am not going to get into recruit by recruit and defend Dooley. I merely try to give context (play devil's advocate) around here. VN is like an angry mob with pitchforks.

I will say, that he recruited pretty damn well here given the condition of the program. He out recruited Lane and Fulmer in his last four years.

I am just as puzzled about Bell and others. I also know Croom's mother said that Dooley is the reason Croom is here.

I don't know about the others trying to reach the functioning portion of your brain but this poster isn't attempting to persuade you that Dooley was a totally useless recruiter...but as the face of our program that these elite home state talents should have jumped to be a part of?...the answer is YES...FAILURE...where you fall flat is in disregarding the accounts of the actual subject matter. They were not only leaning AWAY from Tennessee under Dooley...they were using that gifted speed in a downright sprint towards Columbus Tuscaloosa Gainesville anywhere but Knoxville...we would be settling AGAIN with lesser talent in a blase coaching environment with ZERO core energy...people that matter know this...I think you do also...you're just arguing to satisfy an ornery persona..I'm done satisfying that
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[Orange_Crush]

Good lord.

"Lucky" in that sense that he had such a good player, who was a legacy and lives in Knoxville.

The point was that he would not be committed to us, bleeding orange, shutting down recruiting, and recruiting for us if he lived in Athens and was a UGA legacy.

You guys are seriously over thinking this. Just playing devils advocate here.

Wait a minute... We are taking recruits and their family's comments at face value. You are denying their comments in favor of intuition, hunches, and luck... And we're overthinking things?

 

[Doyle Hargraves]

(And that's not "all you said". You said CDD was very unlucky, and that CBJ has been very lucky. Evidence has been shown that CDD made his own luck in recruiting. Evidence has been shown that CBJ is making his own luck in recruiting.)

Truth

 

[KBVol]

Jesus Christ. I am not going to get into recruit by recruit and defend Dooley. I merely try to give context (play devil's advocate) around here. VN is like an angry mob with pitchforks.

I will say, that he recruited pretty damn well here given the condition of the program. He out recruited Lane and Fulmer in his last four years.

I am just as puzzled about Bell and others. I also know Croom's mother said that Dooley is the reason Croom is here.

Sorry, but there simply is no better way to provide "context" than to get the exact thoughts and words from the subjects in question. Dooley did get some talented recruits on campus, no doubt. But he also angered a lot of high school coaches and turned off a lot of recruits with either his lack of "recruiting attention" to them or by his overall demeanor.

My take on guys like TKJr and Wharton was this.... they have always loved UT, always wanted to run through the T on Saturdays.... But they were looking elsewhere and were definitely not going to go to UT as long as Dooley was there. When Dooley left and they got a chance to meet CBJ and see his vision for the program they've always loved, they signed up ASAP to play for the school they've always loved. That simple, cause that's basically what they've said.

 

[papatomany]

Oh, good grief. Butch will be here as long as he wants to be, unless he becomes as complacent as Phil did. By year three he'll be consistently winning no less than 9 games a year. He could be better than that, but he'll be at least that good for a while.

 

[PKT_VOL]

Why not? He said he wasn't. Besides intuition, please give a logical reason for him or his family to lie about it.

You're right, he wasn't a lean at all. If we can't agree that he was was lean, in whatever capacity to UT, then we should just agree to disagree.

(And that's not "all you said". You said CDD was very unlucky, and that CBJ has been very lucky. Evidence has been shown that CDD made his own luck in recruiting. Evidence has been shown that CBJ is making his own luck in recruiting.)

Now, I'm not hating on CDD. From my perspective it's a conversation about CBJ.

The unlucky comment in reference to Dooley was about injuries, etc.

CDD did a good job in recruiting relative to the state of the program and his predecessors.

 

[PKT_VOL]

Wait a minute... We are taking recruits and their family's comments at face value. You are denying their comments in favor of intuition, hunches, and luck... And we're overthinking things?

I would have preferred to never go there. I just keeps getting spewed how bad Dooley was at recruiting because X said something bad. There are questionable things, no doubt. Just pointing out that Croom's family had a very different opinion.

Like I said, it is a hell hole (regardless of who is coaching) that I would like to avoid.

 

[Orange_Crush]

The unlucky comment in reference to Dooley was about injuries, etc.

CDD did a good job in recruiting relative to the state of the program and his predecessors.

On one hand, I would agree that CDD did OK recruiting. Recent reports have made me glad he is no longer recruiting for UT.

 

[Orange_Crush]

I would have preferred to never go there. I just keeps getting spewed how bad Dooley was at recruiting because X said something bad. There are questionable things, no doubt. Just pointing out that Croom's family had a very different opinion.

Like I said, it is a hell hole (regardless of who is coaching) that I would like to avoid.

People love Jerry Lewis in France, does that make him funny?

 

[PKT_VOL]

Sorry, but there simply is no better way to provide "context" than to get the exact thoughts and words from the subjects in question. Dooley did get some talented recruits on campus, no doubt. But he also angered a lot of high school coaches and turned off a lot of recruits with either his lack of "recruiting attention" to them or by his overall demeanor.

My take on guys like TKJr and Wharton was this.... they have always loved UT, always wanted to run through the T on Saturdays.... But they were looking elsewhere and were definitely not going to go to UT as long as Dooley was there. When Dooley left and they got a chance to meet CBJ and see his vision for the program they've always loved, they signed up ASAP to play for the school they've always loved. That simple, cause that's basically what they've said.

I generally agree with this.

The thing that is not said (for obvious reasons), although I believe is quite a big deal, is the losing record the last few years. I think this had more to do with various recruits being less interested in UT than Dooley (in and of himself). That is not to say that what you said about Dooley and various HS coaches, parents, etc is not true.

New blood and energy into a program should not be underestimated. The relative "luckiness" of this class is that we have an abnormal amount of highly rated legacies and vol fans recruits compared to a normal year.

 

[PKT_VOL]

On one hand, I would agree that CDD did OK recruiting. Recent reports have made me glad he is no longer recruiting for UT.

I would say he did more than OK (given the state of the program).

I will say that the Bell story among others leaves me scratching my head. I tend to thing there is more to the story, but that is just me.

 

[PKT_VOL]

People love Jerry Lewis in France, does that make him funny?

If they find him funny.

 

[Coach Grizz]

Well I reckon I need to eat some crow too, I was female doggin when they hired CBJ but after seeing what he has done so far... The future is so dat damn bright I need sunglasses!!

 

[KBVol]

I generally agree with this.

The thing that is not said (for obvious reasons), although I believe is quite a big deal, is the losing record the last few years. I think this had more to do with various recruits being less interested in UT than Dooley (in and of himself). That is not to say that what you said about Dooley and various HS coaches, parents, etc is not true.

New blood and energy into a program should not be underestimated. The relative "luckiness" of this class is that we have an abnormal amount of highly rated legacies and vol fans recruits compared to a normal year.

We'll just have to disagree on the part about whether recruits were not interested in UT because of the losing seasons or because of DD. I'll say this- Dooley was the coach during those three losing seasons and I dont believe you can separate the two. He was the one in charge, the one that set the tone and vision for the program, and a lot of recruits and former players did not like what they saw and felt.

Also, I don't think you'd be referring to the "luckiness" of this class if Dooley were still the coach, because none of them would be coming here, per what they've stated themselves.

 

[UGADawg4Life]

I tend to agree; in theory at least (about getting more time). The reality was that the team's spirit was broken which is enough for me to accept the firing and moving in a new direction. Now, everyone wants to blame Dooley for that. Although he wasn't perfect, given the condition the program was when he took over and the crap that when down that was out of his control, I think in theory he deserved more time.

At any rate, he will get another job if he wants one. He turned two programs around. Although, I think he has a natural personality to make a career as a TV analysis. I am thankful for his contributions here and wish him well in his future endeavors.

He already has another job. But I believe he will return to CFB as a HC......maybe D2 or maybe a FCS school. I believe that he will eventually make it back to D1, FBS if he so chooses. He's a smart guy.....knows football. Just needs to get the motivation thing down. Which I believe he will.

 

[UGADawg4Life]

At georgia?

Not likely but ya neva know.

 

[darkgable]

I have more worries than recruiting.... Dooley could NOT coach, yet Dooley coached a team that beat CBJ...... That screams at me everytime I try to get on board.

I am not saying that CBJ hasn't done a good job so far, I am impressed with the things he has said, and done so far, and recruiting is going gang busters this year...SO FAR...

The season has not even started yet and you are proclaiming he can coach???? Let this year play out and we will all know, but a couple of good words and a couple (4 or 5) good recruits does not make CBJ a success

WE ARE STILL IN THE SEC, so I will wait and see

Sorry..........NO Crow here yet :hi:

And yet you judge. CBJ based off of being beat by a superior Vol team. That in itself is absurd. Which is worse judging a man that has four championships under his belt or judging a man because he got beat one time by Dooley? Really? Didn't Cincy win there conference after that loss? I think some of you would have a stroke if you even attempted to try to be positive or not find fault with something.

 

[darkgable]

We are going to go 7 and 5 and win our bowl game and kick azz in recruiting and go 8 and 4 in year 2 and win our bowl game and then in year 3 its on baby we are going to kick the gators and bama azz in the same year and then we the VOL NATION can say we are back.:dance2:

Amen brotha. I like this.

 

[KBVol]

And yet you judge. CBJ based off of being beat by a superior Vol team. That in itself is absurd. Which is worse judging a man that has four championships under his belt or judging a man because he got beat one time by Dooley? Really? Didn't Cincy win there conference after that loss? I think some of you would have a stroke if you even attempted to try to be positive or not find fault with something.

You have been awarded a"Like" kind sir

 

[Oskie Volum]

I would have preferred to never go there. I just keeps getting spewed how bad Dooley was at recruiting because X said something bad. There are questionable things, no doubt. Just pointing out that Croom's family had a very different opinion.

Like I said, it is a hell hole (regardless of who is coaching) that I would like to avoid.

Trying the devils advocate role with ignorant folks never goes well man. Just to dumb to see anything other than what they know cause it makes their brain hurt. I find it funny too how they harp on recruit talk and disregard an actual players parent. They act as if every person gets along with everyone, no coach has ever lost an in state recruit, etc.

He already has another job. But I believe he will return to CFB as a HC......maybe D2 or maybe a FCS school. I believe that he will eventually make it back to D1, FBS if he so chooses. He's a smart guy.....knows football. Just needs to get the motivation thing down. Which I believe he will.

It's not worth the discussion man. These people are just incapable of getting out of the "bash Dooley" box. I've said for a while that SmU would be a great fit for him if jones were to leave. Lots of factors makes it one IMO. If it were to open and harts son is still the AD there it'll be a very telling sign of how things between Dave hart and Dooley truly are IMO.

And yet you judge. CBJ based off of being beat by a superior Vol team. That in itself is absurd. Which is worse judging a man that has four championships under his belt or judging a man because he got beat one time by Dooley? Really? Didn't Cincy win there conference after that loss? I think some of you would have a stroke if you even attempted to try to be positive or not find fault with something.

This isn't bashing CBJ, and saying he isn't a fine coach with potentional. But to me sharing championships, especially a four way tie, is not something to hang your hat on. That's just me though. I'm not a participation trophy baby.

 

[NashVol11]

This isn't bashing CBJ, and saying he isn't a fine coach with potentional. But to me sharing championships, especially a four way tie, is not something to hang your hat on. That's just me though. I'm not a participation trophy baby.

Finally, we agree on something.