Petrino on the UT Game

#126
#126
sjt18 said:
I am NOT comparing apples to oranges. You won't find many more apples to apples comparisons in CFB than the one between Jones' opportunity in '13 compared to Dooley's in '10. The schedules are similar. Jones inherits a better situation and appears to be a better coach. He certainly has a better resume coming in.

Too much roster turnover and lack of continuity? That was much worse 3 years ago too. The ONLY quality OL Dooley inherited bolted. Kiffin had just the year before performed a roster purge of guys he didn't want to go forward with who might have contributed for another coach. Talented players were still being lost to off the field problems.

Fulmer had just recently been fired after letting program discipline descend into the lower regions of hades. He had virtually lost the ability to recruit players with talent who could stay eligible in the numbers needed to sustain an even mid-level SEC program.


You are either vastly overestimating the problems Jones has inherited or vastly underestimating how bad the program was 3 and 4 years ago.

Yes. The right coach will make a difference right away. It takes talent to go from the bottom to the top. It takes depth of talent. UT lacks the second for sure. But to go from 5 wins to 7 is VERY MUCH within the range of difference a good coach can make over a bad one.

I don't expect UT to be this year's TAM. Worley definitely isn't Manzel. However, I think the comparison with Hugh Freeze is a legit one. He made an immediate and significant impact on Ole Miss.


Are you really, honestly saying that the standard for Jones should NOT be higher than the standard set by Dooley?

And I'll ask you too. If UT had hired Petrino, Gruden, or your pick of the "elite" coaches... would your expectations be different? If so... why lower the standard?
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OK, I've officially decided you are clueless. Won't do the ignore thing because all viewpoints have some modicum of value. But that last post is so far off base that you clearly don't know what you're talking about or you're just trying to get a response.:peace2:
 
#127
#127
Dragon18 said:
OK, I've officially decided you are clueless. Won't do the ignore thing because all viewpoints have some modicum of value. But that last post is so far off base that you clearly don't know what you're talking about or you're just trying to get a response.:peace2:
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I think he's made great points in comparing Dooley '10 to Butch '13. Dooley had a much worse situation.
 
#128
#128
sjt18 said:
He inherited no QB's who were on the roster the previous year... and his only SEC level RB was Poole.

Other than the one CB spot... he did not. By the end of the season it was so bad that Teague started as a Fr.

Moore, McNeil, Randolph>Jackson, Waggner, Brewer IMO.

Coleman/Sutton > Anderson or Waggner/Teague IMO.

Not even ballpark close. Dooley inherited ZERO SEC quality DT's. He only inherited one guy with the size and he didn't make it through the season. Ayres, Vic Thomas, and M Jackson whose natural position was SDE played DT. They had Ayres starting at times as a walk on at 265.

Both starting DE's had chronic injury problems. There was no depth to speak of. The best two subs were probably Hood and Miller as much younger players. No. And it really isn't close. I'll take what UT has in their first 4 LB's this year over '10 every day of the week.

I'm not trying to beat you up... but that roster was horrible... and then basically took a step back in '11 after Hunter went down.


IMHO, Jones' year 2 looks ALOT like Dooley's year 2 roster wise. This year UT has several talented Sr's and Jr's that will likely be gone next year. Fr and Sophs will fill the depth chart and comprise the bulk of UT's best talent in '14.



Again, if UT had gotten Petrino, Fisher, or even Chuckie... what would the expectation be? This is a 7 or 8 win roster for the "right" coach. I want that to be Jones but am honest with myself about the possibility that he is not.
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You keep harping on 7 or 8 win roster as if no other variables are in play.

AP, WKU, S Bama, Missouri, Auburn, Kentucky, Vandy ---- best case scenario. Where is number 8? Pretty ridiculous rubric for assessing a coach in his first year, with none of his own players, and a terrible quarterback that doesn't fit what he does.

But by all means, Butch certainly may not be the guy for the job.

Give me a break.
 
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#130
#130
D.C. Vol said:
Antonio Andrews is a name Vol fans will become very familiar with next Saturday.
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It all comes down to line of scrimmage, if our O line and D line seize control, we win simple as that. They cannot make plays if our big uglies have a better day and we don't make silly mistakes or turn the ball over. We have a talent edge my prediction. UT 28 WKU 12.
 
#133
#133
It's ok to be concerned about WKU but at the same time our fanbase should be Confident that the Big Orange will roll to victory

Quit nit-picking every aspect looking for reasons why we might lose
 
#134
#134
D.C. Vol said:
Something else to consider is his explosive ability in the return game. Tennessee's kickoff coverage didn't look very capable against the Governors.
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Yeah, I guess there wasn't much to pick apart from this past Saturday's performance. So the kick coverage is about it. Butch Jones has been notorious for having solid special teams. I expect that unit will look better this Saturday.
 
#139
#139
MannyD said:
UK's offense must have been fun to watch then. We could use those types of playmakers.
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I see my post went right over your head. If you had fun watching our team play any of the last 5 years, then your expectations have been different than mine. Sloppy is how O would characterize our performances. Even our big wins against inferior opponents were sloppy. The AP game was at least some kind if semblance of consistency in all phases of the game. (With the exception the of one return)
 
#140
#140
Dragon18 said:
Damn..... you're a cup half empty guy aren't you?
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No. I'm really not. In fact, I am more often accused of being a "sunshine pumper" or something of the sort. But my eyes are open. I want to see proof... not bluster... not promise... I want to see results before starting to hand out passes for poor coaching performances.

I'm sure the first thought you had when I said that was "no I'm a realist" or some variation of such.
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Since I am about equally now called too optimistic and too pessimistic... I'd say there's a good chance I'm landing in that "realistic" range. Facts mean more to me than talk. And honestly, I'm not a very emotion driven person in general. I am a reason driven person. I don't even have to agree with someone... but lack of reasoning or poor reasoning in someone's "truth claims" are very hard for me to let pass.

Butch Jones has won championships 4 out of 6 years at every level he's coached. Yes!
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That is one reason to have hope. That is one reason I BELIEVE he not only CAN but WILL win 7 or 8 games with this roster. EVERYTHING I know of that he has done so far supports success. But at the end of the day... he still has to produce the W's.

I know that he hasn't coached at the SEC level blah blah blah. But neither has he had the resources or the facilities that he has to work with now. Or access the SEC level talent. And that my friend is what makes the SEC great.
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Sort of... but only for the great programs. Someone is always on the bottom... and in the SEC that's a pretty uncomfortable place to be.

I was never worried about CBJ with regard to program,execution or Xes and Oes. I was concerned about recruiting because that can be challenging at UT from a geographic perspective. There is NOTHING in his resume or in his first 8 months on the job to give anybody any reason to doubt he will be successful at UT (And I am talking about East and SEC championships).
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I agree. If I did not... then I would not think he "should" win 7 or 8 games. But again, if he is the coach we hope he is... that's what he will produce.

The coach UT needs will not lose to less talented teams. Even to the end, Fulmer seldom did that. The right coach will beat teams that have the same or a little more talent. The right coach will give superior opponents all they want.

I AM hopeful that Jones is the guy... but the standard is the same whether he is or isn't.

If some guy shows up on a MLB roster and is proclaimed a great pitcher... he has great endurance, great pitches, great location, etc... he STILL isn't a great pitcher until he goes out, shuts batters down, and wins games.

Jones appears to have his mojo going. But the right coach will win 7 or 8 games with THIS roster. I'm not calling for anything more than him being a LITTLE better than Dooley.

Until there is reason to believe otherwise I will believe he is every bit the coach as any of his contemporaries (except maybe Saban). There is no data to believe any other way... unless of course you're a cup half empty kind of guy:) :peace2:
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Of course there's data to believe another way. It may not be strong or plentiful... but there are things that could be indicators of future failure.

BTW, he better be BETTER than Saban if you hope to see championships in K'ville. Saban is an elite recruiter who is on a massive roll. All roads to the SEC championship will go through Saban for the foreseeable future.
 
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#142
#142
Dragon18 said:
OK, I've officially decided you are clueless. Won't do the ignore thing because all viewpoints have some modicum of value. But that last post is so far off base that you clearly don't know what you're talking about or you're just trying to get a response.:peace2:
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Then take me on... point by point. With something other than a dullard's "huh-uh".

I am "clueless"... but I am the one that keeps point to facts and keeps using reason. Tell me again how that works...
 
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#144
#144
theutvolunteers said:
I think he's made great points in comparing Dooley '10 to Butch '13. Dooley had a much worse situation.
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And he failed. And even though I said similar things about him that I am saying about Jones... like stating what I believe "success" will look like... I was called a "doolander" and other such non-sense for simply saying that he should get the full opporunity to prove himself.

I support Jones getting at least 3 years. UT can NEVER support a coach on a hot seat past year 3 because of its dependence on out of state recruiting. Kids don't leave home to play for coaches who are about to be fired. But NO COACH that is hired should get less than a 3 year period to prove themselves.

He, like Dooley, should have had a sufficient opportunity to build a roster capable of competing for the East and beating someone significant no later than '15.

My major point is if he can't win a piddling 7 games this year with a roster possessing a ton of talented upperclassmen... why should I continue to believe he is likely to do anything the next two years with rosters that have far less experienced talent if not talent overall?
 
#147
#147
The Orange Pants said:
You should be President of The World since you have so much knowledge that the rest of us mere peasants could never fathom attaining.
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This is a pretty classic response from someone who cannot argue the facts or present an intelligent idea....

If you have something intelligent to say then stop attacking me and spit it out.
 
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#148
#148
I can't say anything intelligent to this nonsense. You got me. This is actually one of the few times I've been at a loss for words. Gold star for you, buddy.
 
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