Peyton manning= best qb ever

#101
#101
Wylo said:
funny that it always seems to be about his defense, and never his picks or overthrown passes.

interesting.
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Well the defense sure doesn't help to the fact if he throws a pick. Brady always has a good defense backing him up. The beast jerod mayo is on the team swarming at all times.
 
#103
#103
As biased as I am for Manning there is still some doubt in my mind of him being better than Tom Brady. You almost have to give Brady the nod because of head to head record right now.
 
#104
#104
DaddyChad said:
As biased as I am for Manning there is still some doubt in my mind of him being better than Tom Brady. You almost have to give Brady the nod because of head to head record right now.
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I agree, Either way you look at it Im sure that when they both decide to retire they will be 1st and 2nd in ever statistical category.
 
#105
#105
Wylo said:
Statistically the best, easily...

Game on the line, tight situation, not even close to the best.

It isn't being ugly, it's just the truth.
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He has more 4th Q comebacks than any other QB ever.
 
#106
#106
DaddyChad said:
As biased as I am for Manning there is still some doubt in my mind of him being better than Tom Brady. You almost have to give Brady the nod because of head to head record right now.
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Wouldn't that fall into the better defense argument as the Pats have always had the upper hand in that catagory? Also consider Mannibg has had to play in NE in 11 of 17 match ups.
 
#108
#108
dooley2 said:
This is a great point. You can't really look at wins and losses, because it's a team sport. You can't look at individual statistics, because the team has to help you get there. I think you have to look at the things that don't show up in a stat book. For that reason, it's hard not to think Peyton is the best ever. The guy is not only playing quarterback, but is also the team's offensive coordinator. He stays after practice and makes his teammates get something right before they can leave. He's a football-holic. That big head of his is full of football knowledge.

Montana might have been the same way, but the game has evolved since Montana, and Peyton is normally 2 or 3 steps ahead of any defense.
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Very valid points.
I think 1 & 2 are Montana and Manning, and you can make adequate arguments for and against both guys. Mannings stats are greater than Joe's, Joe's has the championships. I'm far from one those rings rule everything guys, Joe separates himself from guys with multiple rings because he was Super Bowl perfection statistically. The biggest thing I respect about Manning is his brain. Manning is the last of the true signal callers. IMO Almost every QB used to call his own plays, now only one guy does. Thats pretty impressive too me. You could say the league is pass happy so stats are a bit inflated. But defenses and scheming has evolved as well. One advantage QBs have today is the softness of the league, a defender sneezes at a QB and its a flag. 20 years ago you could pretty much behead a QB. But defenders are bigger and faster today, and reaction time by a QB has to be faster. You could go on and on. I think both QBs would do well in any era personally though. One guy I think would really thrive today is Marino, his passing numbers would be stupid.
 
#109
#109
burntorangeVOLffle said:
He has more 4th Q comebacks than any other QB ever.
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Tony Romo has the most in the past 2 years. I've had the 4th q cb argument used against me arguing for Montana before. Hardly Joe's fault that he didn't need them. I wish there was a winning % for 4th quarter comebacks, a success rate on all 4th quarter comeback chances. That would be a far more telling stat. IMO
 
#110
#110
jeffmcflurry27 said:
I love watching Peyton as much as anyone on here, but you cannot make a rational argument that he is the best considering his record against Brady and how many rings they have in comparison. Now, If he gets a SB this year the whole dynamic changes, but until then one can rationally argue that he isn't.

Not trying to be a jerk, but just saying it how it is.
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Terry Bradshaw and Joe Montana both quarterbacked 4 Superbowl wins so they are both better than Brady right? It's a team sport. 11 guys on offense, 11 on defense and even more on special teams. Coaching is a factor as well......the best quarterback is the best quarterback. Wins and championships are something the whole team has to accomplish. The talking heads on TV continue bringing this up because they have to talk about something.
 
#111
#111
Vol-in-Atlanta said:
Terry Bradshaw and Joe Montana both quarterbacked 4 Superbowl wins so they are both better than Brady right? It's a team sport. 11 guys on offense, 11 on defense and even more on special teams. Coaching is a factor as well......the best quarterback is the best quarterback. Wins and championships are something the whole team has to accomplish. The talking heads on TV continue bringing this up because they have to talk about something.
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Montana yes, Bradshaw no. Super Bowl performance rules in this case.
 
#114
#114
BadJerry20 said:
Tony Romo has the most in the past 2 years. I've had the 4th q cb argument used against me arguing for Montana before. Hardly Joe's fault that he didn't need them. I wish there was a winning % for 4th quarter comebacks, a success rate on all 4th quarter comeback chances. That would be a far more telling stat. IMO
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It's an indicator that he does not "choke when the game is on the line".

To your point about needing 4th Q CBs... Doesn't that reinforce the weak defense argument?

There isn't really a clear cut answer to this. I love the debate though. If not for Brady the Manning discussion would be boring.
 
#115
#115
burntorangeVOLffle said:
It's an indicator that he does not "choke when the game is on the line".

To your point about needing 4th Q CBs... Doesn't that reinforce the weak defense argument?

There isn't really a clear cut answer to this. I love the debate though. If not for Brady the Manning discussion would be boring.
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Not really cause we don't know how many times he has failed in those situations. Which is why a % rating would be a neat stat to have.

Again idk probably, but idk the scores in those games. It's a safe assumption they were high scoring.

So you just dismiss Montana? Lol
 
#119
#119
BadJerry20 said:
Not really cause we don't know how many times he has failed in those situations. Which is why a % rating would be a neat stat to have.

Again idk probably, but idk the scores in those games. It's a safe assumption they were high scoring.

So you just dismiss Montana? Lol
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I know the legend of Montana and I've seen the highlights but I was just a kid when his time in San Fran was winding down. Its hard fro me to really debate his place one way or the other since I didn't experience it the way I have Manning and Brady.

I will say the impact Bill Walsh had on his career is very similar to Bellichick on Brady. Manning has not had that during his career which should be factored in when discussing individual accomplishments.
 
#120
#120
BadJerry20 said:
I always find it funny that people say rings are overrated cause it's a team sport. But all stats are somehow a players own doing. Someone had to block for, and catch all those passes and tds. So it's still a team effort. Unless he threw all those to himself.
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One word: Defense.
 
#121
#121
burntorangeVOLffle said:
I know the legend of Montana and I've seen the highlights but I was just a kid when his time in San Fran was winding down. Its hard fro me to really debate his place one way or the other since I didn't experience it the way I have Manning and Brady.

I will say the impact Bill Walsh had on his career is very similar to Bellichick on Brady. Manning has not had that during his career which should be factored in when discussing individual accomplishments.
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That makes sense.

I agree Walsh helped Montana a great deal, but he did win with George Seifert too. Lol I think Manning/Walsh would have been great together, Manning and the Hoody would have been a bad match IMO. Mannings lack of a great coach may have been the best for him personally cause he needs the freedom. Team wise it definitely hurt though.
 
#123
#123
BadJerry20 said:
I'm pretty sure you missed the point. I'm simply saying a QBs stats are not completely because of him, teammates do factor in, just like winning games.
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Obviously this does matter. It's nuts for anybody to ever downplay Montana but having arguably the GOAT for you at WR is going to help. Stout defenses help immensely though. Not only are you generally required to score fewer points to get a W you also tend to get the ball more often. (Oddly though a truly awful defense can help stats in that you still get the ball often and are basically forced to throw a great deal. That can be great for stats but it's tough to win consistently like that)
 
#124
#124
hndog609 said:
Obviously this does matter. It's nuts for anybody to ever downplay Montana but having arguably the GOAT for you at WR is going to help. Stout defenses help immensely though. Not only are you generally required to score fewer points to get a W you also tend to get the ball more often. (Oddly though a truly awful defense can help stats in that you still get the ball often and are basically forced to throw a great deal. That can be great for stats but it's tough to win consistently like that)
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Good points and I agree with them. Except I don't think Rice being the GOAT is arguable, probably the only position that isn't. IMO It is odd that every argument for or against, can be used both ways. Which makes it fun to discuss, well with rational people that can view it objectively from both sides. :)
 
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