Religious leadership on this team and Bryce Brown...

#101
#101
rjd970 said:
Huh? I said we couldn't possibly know what he wants. I would bet I understand this concept better than most pious do.
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Nothing personal... I just find it somewhat humorous that you would be posting about what God wants (or doesn't want) when you don't even believe in Him. And if you really understood "the concept" as well as you think you do, then you wouldn't have made the following statement.

rjd970 said:
It is, afterall, the religious that concern themselves with the specifics of sin (not really... Jesus died for our sins - 'nuff said), which name to call him (God, Father - which is used ~ 260 times in the Bible and mostly in the New Testament, or as God refers to himself "I AM"... you should really think about the meaning of that one, although imo God is less concerned about what you call Him and more concerned that you just call and have a relationship) how to pray to him (ask... seek... knock), or who died for what purpose ("For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God." Rom 6:10)
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#102
#102
T-TownVol said:
God is very clear as to what he wants.

Religions are man made. Have nothing to do with what God wants. Too many people confuse religion with being a Christian.
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Exactly. :eek:k:

rjd970 said:
Christianity = Religion = man made. :no: Christ came to put an end to religion... you may want to study Romans.
Islam = Religion = man made.
Judiasm = Religion = man made.
Buddhism = Religion = man made.
Hindu = Religion = man made.
etc...etc....

All of these concepts about God make specific claims about what he wants and they are all religions. It's one thing to claim there is a creator, it is a totally different one to claim he wants us to be Christian, as opposed to anything else.
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#103
#103
IBlvNTmWrk said:
Nothing personal... I just find it somewhat humorous that you would be posting about what God wants (or doesn't want) when you don't even believe in Him. And if you really understood "the concept" as well as you think you do, then you wouldn't have made the following statement.
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Nothing personal taken. I just don't understand why you can't see I'm not making any claims either way about what God does or doesn't want. Like you said, I don't believe in him. You guys are the ones concerning yourself with him.

And when you said the following:

(not really... Jesus died for our sins - 'nuff said),
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That carries a lot of baggage as far as specifics. "nuff said" is a drastic underestimation of the importance of that event, given what Christians say they believe and the specifics that follow as a result. I don't have to be Christian to see that.

As far as all the Bible references, what is that really supposed to mean? I could get on here and tout the specifics of Islam with Qu'ran passages and I'm sure it would mean squat as far as your concerened. Why would you think the Bible would be any different for me? Telling me I should go "study Romans" like it contains some revelation I have never seen before is silly.

If God was so clear on what he wants, there wouldn't be a single religious war or difference since the whole thing took off. God (if he exists) isn't clear what he wants.....you (the pious) are clear on what you think he wants. That is a monumental difference. I really don't see how you can say "God is clear what he wants" like it is an objective statement.
 
#104
#104
rjd970 said:
Christianity = Religion = man made.
Islam = Religion = man made.
Judiasm = Religion = man made.
Buddhism = Religion = man made.
Hindu = Religion = man made.
etc...etc....

All of these concepts about God make specific claims about what he wants and they are all religions. It's one thing to claim there is a creator, it is a totally different one to claim he wants us to be Christian, as opposed to anything else.
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There is no sence in talking to you about this. Have a great life. Your eternal life is not going to be so much fun.
 
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#109
#109
rjd970 said:
Nothing personal taken. I just don't understand why you can't see I'm not making any claims either way about what God does or doesn't want. Like you said, I don't believe in him. You guys are the ones concerning yourself with him.

And when you said the following:

That carries a lot of baggage as far as specifics. "nuff said" is a drastic underestimation of the importance of that event, given what Christians say they believe and the specifics that follow as a result. I don't have to be Christian to see that.

You're the one who brought up the issue of the specifics of sin as a concern. I'm not trying to underestimate anything, and completely agree with the importance of the event. My point was that if one simply believes Christ died for their sins, then they've established a solid foundation upon which to build... so I'm not sure what "concern" you think we may have.

As far as all the Bible references, what is that really supposed to mean? I could get on here and tout the specifics of Islam with Qu'ran passages and I'm sure it would mean squat as far as your concerened. Why would you think the Bible would be any different for me? Telling me I should go "study Romans" like it contains some revelation I have never seen before is silly.

IIRC, you've stated before that you believe in the existence of Jesus... but not necessarily that He was the Son of God. My reference to Romans was to support the point that Jesus came to end religion. This was well documented by Paul who, I think it is fair to say, knew Jesus' story and purpose as well if not better than anyone. So even if you don't believe in Jesus as the Savior, the reference is still valid that Jesus the man was not in favor of "religion" and viewed it much the same way as you.

If God was so clear on what he wants, there wouldn't be a single religious war or difference since the whole thing took off. God (if he exists) isn't clear what he wants.....you (the pious) are clear on what you think he wants. That is a monumental difference. I really don't see how you can say "God is clear what he wants" like it is an objective statement.
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All the above is just an ignorant statement, which again seems to show that you do not understand God's word and Christianity as well as you think you do.

droski said:
care to elaborate?
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You're a smart guy droski. I'm sure you can come up with this answer on your own... whether or not you agree with it is another matter. :p

volinbham said:
You left one off:

Science = man made. :)
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Nice! :eek:k:
 
#110
#110
T-TownVol said:
fyp
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One viewpoint offers a series of better and better approximations to phenomena without ever claiming to know the complete answer.

The other viewpoint starts off with its particular complete answer and is off and running to make everything fit that viewpoint.

Science does not equal religion. Both have their weaknesses, of course, but science is far better at dealing with the unknowns.
 
#111
#111
My point was that if one simply believes Christ died for their sins, then they've established a solid foundation upon which to build...
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Exactly my point. You take an event that may or may not have happened, that relies on the importance of faith, and start claiming specifics based on that event as a foundation. It is exactly the same as me saying the Qu'ran is the only religious text directly written word for word from God himself, so everything it says is exactly what God wants.

Taking one extraordinary claim and building a set of principles and ideals from it says absolutely nothing about the valdity of said principles and ideals.

IIRC, you've stated before that you believe in the existence of Jesus... but not necessarily that He was the Son of God. My reference to Romans was to support the point that Jesus came to end religion. This was well documented by Paul who, I think it is fair to say, knew Jesus' story and purpose as well if not better than anyone. So even if you don't believe in Jesus as the Savior, the reference is still valid that Jesus the man was not in favor of "religion" and viewed it much the same way as you.
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I bet Paul didn't know it better than Jesus himself, no? Believing in Jesus the man and Jesus the divine are two different things. It would be one thing if there actually was a Gospel of Jesus, written by his own hand, but there isn't.

All the above is just an ignorant statement, which again seems to show that you do not understand God's word and Christianity as well as you think you do.
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The pious are the ones interpreting scripture, because God certainly isn't outlining in a clear and concise manner what he expects, otherwise there would be one single religion.

Find one thing about my ignorant statement that is factually wrong. NOT your opinion or profession of faith, but factual evidence showing any part of that logical thinking to be wrong....ie...take the statement on its merits and break it down. My money says you can't do it without bringing a religious ideal or scripture quote to bear.
 
#112
#112
rjd970 said:
One viewpoint offers a series of better and better approximations to phenomena without ever claiming to know the complete answer.

The other viewpoint starts off with its particular complete answer and is off and running to make everything fit that viewpoint.

Science does not equal religion. Both have their weaknesses, of course, but science is far better at making up crap to deal with the unknowns.[/QUOTE]

fyp
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#113
#113
T-TownVol said:
rjd970 said:
One viewpoint offers a series of better and better approximations to phenomena without ever claiming to know the complete answer.

The other viewpoint starts off with its particular complete answer and is off and running to make everything fit that viewpoint.

Science does not equal religion. Both have their weaknesses, of course, but science is far better at making up crap to deal with the unknowns.[/QUOTE]

fyp
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Making up crap? Coming from someone with the religious point of view?

Too easy. Pass.
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#115
#115
IBlvNTmWrk said:
You're a smart guy droski. I'm sure you can come up with this answer on your own... whether or not you agree with it is another matter. :p
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why would the loving god that christians believe in send people to hell for not believing in him when we are on earth, no matter how well you lived your life? sounds like kind of a prick really.
 
#116
#116
droski said:
why would the loving god that christians believe in send people to hell for not believing in him when we are on earth, no matter how well you lived your life? sounds like kind of a prick really.
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Its not about life on earth, its about what is next. We all have choices about how we live and what we do with our lives.
 
#119
#119
droski said:
why would the loving god that christians believe in send people to hell for not believing in him when we are on earth, no matter how well you lived your life? sounds like kind of a prick really.
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Exactly droski.

Good people will be good, bad people will be bad. Nothing is going to change that, including hope for reward or fear of punishment after death.

I'm a good person and have strong morals. I have never done anything worse than get a speeding ticket. My wife and I donate to charity, and I support a variety of causes. If there is a God, and he decides to judge me because I didn't massage his egotistical needs, he can keep his heaven, I'm fine going elsewhere.

T-Town seems to think God is very clear what he wants, and according to T-Town I am not going to like my retirement prospects after death. I guess I would be worried or offended if I didn't find the whole notion laughable.
 
#120
#120
droski said:
and god cares whether i worship him?
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I believe he does, but like I said we all have the ability to make that decision for ourselves. I do believe in him and that he died for our sins. But I also recognize people have different religions or non at all and that is their personal choice and a decision they have to live with, good or bad.
 
#121
#121
volfanjustin said:
I believe he does, but like I said we all have the ability to make that decision for ourselves. I do believe in him and that he died for our sins. But I also recognize people have different religions or non at all and that is their personal choice and a decision they have to live with, good or bad.
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it's also not a decision they all have. There are plenty of people living right now that don't know the only way to get to your heaven is to worship your god. Sad He put them on this earth with no hope of an afterlife you're able to reach (only because of where you were born). Pretty random if you ask me
 
#122
#122
volfanjustin said:
I believe he does, but like I said we all have the ability to make that decision for ourselves. I do believe in him and that he died for our sins. But I also recognize people have different religions or non at all and that is their personal choice and a decision they have to live with, good or bad.
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but why would a loving god chose to punish otherwise good people for eternity simply because they wanted some concrete evidence he existed?
 
#124
#124
rjd970 said:
Exactly droski.

Good people will be good, bad people will be bad. Nothing is going to change that, including hope for reward or fear of punishment after death.

I'm a good person and have strong morals. I have never done anything worse than get a speeding ticket. My wife and I donate to charity, and I support a variety of causes. If there is a God, and he decides to judge me because I didn't massage his egotistical needs, he can keep his heaven, I'm fine going elsewhere.

T-Town seems to think God is very clear what he wants, and according to T-Town I am not going to like my retirement prospects after death. I guess I would be worried or offended if I didn't find the whole notion laughable.
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Its not about being good or bad. Its about believing or not and asking to be forgiven or not. Donating to charities or not does not get you to heaven or prevents it.

There is a god, do you think this earth, this universe or mankind just happened?

But again I believe its your choice, you want to believe fine, you don't fine. I will not speculate where you may spend eternity.
 
#125
#125
utvolpj said:
it's also not a decision they all have. There are plenty of people living right now that don't know the only way to get to your heaven is to worship your god. Sad He put them on this earth with no hope of an afterlife you're able to reach (only because of where you were born). Pretty random if you ask me
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Who does not know the word of god or other religions?
 
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