The Pessimist Thread

#152
#152
TNnative said:
After reading the entire thread, that is the one believable thing he has said, Leb.
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I'm the one looking for factual results, not making them up. Don't hate because I'm not drinking the kool-aid.

Those of you who are all in on Butch without on the field results, remember you were probably the same with Dooley. How'd that work out again?

Seriously, I hope Butch wins. I hope he rebuilds UT to what we once were. I just refuse to get my hopes up without seeing results first. I expect this season will be rough(replacing the entire OL), but I expect to see improvement throughout the season. If that doesn't happen, we have a problem. A coach needs to be able to coach. I think this season will show us a lot.
 
#153
#153
I'm not much of a pessimist, but I'll give it a shot:

Today whilst doing the deed with my girlfriend I think I might have broken my star player.

Wheew! That felt good to get off my chest! I should give this pessimism thing a shot more often!
 
#155
#155
MockingVol said:
I'm not much of a pessimist, but I'll give it a shot:

Today whilst doing the deed with my girlfriend I think I might have broken my star player.

Wheew! That felt good to get off my chest! I should give this pessimism thing a shot more often!
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I checked your gf's website. No worries, according to her he was only a two star player. I'd be a little concerned about some guy named Tyrone though. He's #1 on her Top 100 with a five star rating.



j/k
 
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#156
#156
Our class is ranked fifth or so, thus it's worked this far. But Ya, I'm sure the coaches are expecting some changes between now and NSD. Just as was the case last year... We'll lose a few. I'm sure there is still room for Richmond, Tuttle, McGraw, and Van Jefferson. Hopefully we can pickup one or two we don't see coming at this point. If we have to cut one or two loose to upgrade... So be it. These coaches are recruiting experts (unlike dools and co), so we shouldn't question them too much at this point. They've already proven themselves as recruiters
 
#157
#157
LebanonVolunteer said:
Hold up a second. Freak sends out "I been bad" emails?
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Infraction free for three plus months. I'm trying to be a kinder, gentler poster. Key word is trying. Some of you make it difficult. You guys are wound almost as tight as the ff guys are.
 
#158
#158
Weezer said:
I'm the one looking for factual results, not making them up. Don't hate because I'm not drinking the kool-aid.

Those of you who are all in on Butch without on the field results, remember you were probably the same with Dooley. How'd that work out again?

Seriously, I hope Butch wins. I hope he rebuilds UT to what we once were. I just refuse to get my hopes up without seeing results first. I expect this season will be rough(replacing the entire OL), but I expect to see improvement throughout the season. If that doesn't happen, we have a problem. A coach needs to be able to coach. I think this season will show us a lot.
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There is 1 reason I am all in on Butch Jones at least for now. He is a proven winner. When Dave Hart fired a career loser in Derek Dooley, all I wanted to see Hart do was hire a guy who had shown he could win at least at some level. Hart did that in hiring Jones and I am onboard till he shows me he can't get it done. What I have seen thus far, I am glad I was one of the ones early on pushing for Butch to be hired(over Strong). IMO he is doing as well as anyone could ask to this point. :good!:
 
#159
#159
StlCardinals2618 said:
I'm glad you understood my post. That FSU team I used was ranked 10th in the country. Auburn's 8th ranked class had 2 5-stars, 9 4-stars, and 12 3-stars. Ole Miss had the 7th ranked class and they brought in 15 3-stars. aTm had 15 3-stars and 15 4-stars.

I never said rankings don't correlate with success. All those teams brought in a bunch of 3-stars, and had great classes. A simple check on rivals shows that.
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The original point of the OP was a healthy dose of skepticism for bringing in a 5'10" 4.7 CB (for example) when we have more pressing needs on limited space. My point is the remaining spots should be saved for big names. It will probably work itself out. The rest of VN can carry on with the usual name calling and "Butch gets it!" To anyone with a dissenting opinion.
 
#161
#161
Exfix said:
The original point of the OP was a healthy dose of skepticism for bringing in a 5'10" 4.7 CB (for example) when we have more pressing needs on limited space. My point is the remaining spots should be saved for big names. It will probably work itself out. The rest of VN can carry on with the usual name calling and "Butch gets it!" To anyone with a dissenting opinion.
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The big names have a spot. I don't know why people think they don't.
 
#162
#162
LebanonVolunteer said:
There is 1 reason I am all in on Butch Jones at least for now. He is a proven winner. When Dave Hart fired a career loser in Derek Dooley, all I wanted to see Hart do was hire a guy who had shown he could win at least at some level. Hart did that in hiring Jones and I am onboard till he shows me he can't get it done. What I have seen thus far, I am glad I was one of the ones early on pushing for Butch to be hired(over Strong). IMO he is doing as well as anyone could ask to this point. :good!:
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That is a point in which we are in total agreement about. I did not want Strong at all. Don't like his system or his relations with fans/donors. Lucky to end up at UL in a weak conference where it was easier to do a turn around. Second rate offensive system.

Like what Butch does in every area if he can take the next step of taking care of business in the SEC. It is not for the faint of heart.
 
#163
#163
Weezer said:
I'm the one looking for factual results, not making them up. Don't hate because I'm not drinking the kool-aid.

Those of you who are all in on Butch without on the field results, remember you were probably the same with Dooley. How'd that work out again?

Seriously, I hope Butch wins. I hope he rebuilds UT to what we once were. I just refuse to get my hopes up without seeing results first. I expect this season will be rough(replacing the entire OL), but I expect to see improvement throughout the season. If that doesn't happen, we have a problem. A coach needs to be able to coach. I think this season will show us a lot.
Click to expand...

"How'd that work out again?" While I was never sold on Dooley, I think that's a ridiculous question. The only logical response is, I guess the same way it would have had one questioned him or not. Your question seems to imply that being pessimistic could or would have somehow changed how the Dooley Era went. I also think it's ridiculous to be pessimistic about recruiting right now after the way the '14 class finished, added to the fact that Butch and staff have won everywhere they've been, and are known for their talent evaluations. If for some misguided reason being pessimistic makes you feel better about yourself, and like you're a better fan, I guess carry on. I just don't see the point.
 
#164
#164
For the big names to have a spot, room will have to be made. That potentially means turning away players you have accepted commitments from. I know many on here have no problem with that idea, but some of us do. Some of us still come from a background where a man's word means something. Keeping it is keeping your integrity. I won't claim to know what's going on behind the scenes and what's being said to these young men, but if you accept their pledge knowing you may renege at a later date to get better talent(and they aren't made aware of this), then it isn't right IMO. I want to win, but not at the expense where we hinder a young man's future. If he commits to UT and shuts down the process thinking he's guaranteed a scholarship(provided he maintain his grades and not get into trouble), then he should not be recruited over.

That may not be a popular viewpoint, but it is my viewpoint. To trust a man, his word has to mean something.
 
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#165
#165
I trust Butch, but these 3s... Sleep will be lost. Land Tuttle, Richmond, McGraw, Van and it heals the wound.
 
#166
#166
Weezer said:
For the big names to have a spot, room will have to be made. That potentially means turning away players you have accepted commitments from. I know many on here have no problem with that idea, but some of us do. Some of us still come from a background where a man's word means something. Keeping it is keeping your integrity. I won't claim to know what's going on behind the scenes and what's being said to these young men, but if you accept their pledge knowing you may renege at a later date to get better talent(and they aren't made aware of this), then it isn't right IMO. I want to win, but not at the expense where we hinder a young man's future. If he commits to UT and shuts down the process thinking he's guaranteed a scholarship(provided he maintain his grades and not get into trouble), then he should not be recruited over.

That may not be a popular viewpoint, but it is my viewpoint. To trust a man, his word has to mean something.
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If you have a problem with it, don't follow recruiting because it happens at every single school. Its the way of the beast
 
#167
#167
Diceman said:
"How'd that work out again?" While I was never sold on Dooley, I think that's a ridiculous question. The only logical response is, I guess the same way it would have had one questioned him or not. Your question seems to imply that being pessimistic could or would have somehow changed how the Dooley Era went. I also think it's ridiculous to be pessimistic about recruiting right now after the way the '14 class finished, added to the fact that Butch and staff have won everywhere they've been, and are known for their talent evaluations. If for some misguided reason being pessimistic makes you feel better about yourself, and like you're a better fan, I guess carry on. I just don't see the point.
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Did I claim to be a better fan? Do you believe you're a better fan? Some on here seem to think they are. Do you think every Vol fan needs to be in lockstep on their opinion? Some think everyone should follow blindly without question.

You don't have to see the point. You don't have to share my opinion. I'm not trying to sway you one way or the other. I stated an opinion, pure and simple. Others felt the need to attack the opinion rather than discuss it.
 
#168
#168
Weezer said:
For the big names to have a spot, room will have to be made. That potentially means turning away players you have accepted commitments from. I know many on here have no problem with that idea, but some of us do. Some of us still come from a background where a man's word means something. Keeping it is keeping your integrity. I won't claim to know what's going on behind the scenes and what's being said to these young men, but if you accept their pledge knowing you may renege at a later date to get better talent(and they aren't made aware of this), then it isn't right IMO. I want to win, but not at the expense where we hinder a young man's future. If he commits to UT and shuts down the process thinking he's guaranteed a scholarship(provided he maintain his grades and not get into trouble), then he should not be recruited over.

That may not be a popular viewpoint, but it is my viewpoint. To trust a man, his word has to mean something.
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I'm with you on this point 100%. Key parts being his commitment is taken, he shuts his visits down, and maintains acceptable grades and does not do anything to shine a negative light on himself or UT. He does that, IMO he should be able to sign along with the rest of the kids in his class at UT.

I HATE seeing a UT commit visit campus multiple times, help recruit for his class and then fans continue to talk of dropping him in favor of some other kid who may have another * by his name. I agree that even in college recruiting, integrity has to mean something.
 
#169
#169
StlCardinals2618 said:
If you have a problem with it, don't follow recruiting because it happens at every single school. Its the way of the beast
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Such an extremely flawed arguement. You really want to go with the "other people are doing it too so that makes it okay" arguement? Please tell me you don't want to travel down that road. Don't let what other people do dictate your moral ethos.
 
#170
#170
StlCardinals2618 said:
If you have a problem with it, don't follow recruiting because it happens at every single school. Its the way of the beast
Click to expand...

I'd wager a very large amount that not every school recruits a "full class" every season like fans on this board hopes UT does. You will note ALOT of schools do not sign even 20 some years. What that tells me is they do not take the maximum every year. Yes, even in the SEC. The concept of "well, the SEC says 25 max so we should just drop enough kids every year to take the max" will come back to bite a coaching staff who is trying to sell "family", "unity", and "foundation". If the coaches want to run things like Saban does, they should drop all the "family talk" and push the "it's a business" mindset.
 
#171
#171
Weezer said:
Did I claim to be a better fan? Do you believe you're a better fan? Some on here seem to think they are. Do you think every Vol fan needs to be in lockstep on their opinion? Some think everyone should follow blindly without question.

You don't have to see the point. You don't have to share my opinion. I'm not trying to sway you one way or the other. I stated an opinion, pure and simple. Others felt the need to attack the opinion rather than discuss it.
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You stated an opinion, and I stated mine, as have several others. If you're going to knowingly go against the grain, and IMO logic and common sense, you should probably have thicker skin. Most of your responses mention the fact that it's your opinion and you have a right to express it and no one needs to respond. It comes off like your feelings are hurt, and like you're not taking into account the fact that everyone else is expressing their opinions as well.
 
#172
#172
So far what Butch has proven is he has an ability to recruit and seems to make the players want to win... I think I am sold on that part (I do know there is at least one recruit that is committed that may not make it in due to academics)and I do question the accepting of these guys publicly and others then asking them to go elsewhere later.

What Butch has not shown to me yet is game day coaching and adjusting on the fly that all great coaches seem to have....maybe this season he will improve

As far as improvement I want to win the games we should and at least one that we shouldn't and make a bowl appearance
 
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#173
#173
Weezer said:
Such an extremely flawed arguement. You really want to go with the "other people are doing it too so that makes it okay" arguement? Please tell me you don't want to travel down that road. Don't let what other people do dictate your moral ethos.
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Again, this happens at every school. This is one of the downsides of recruiting becoming a popular place in sports. People can't handle knowing some of the things that go on.

They don't do it because other people do it, they do it because they have to. You have to recruit that way. College football is a business and you should view it as such.
 
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#174
#174
StlCardinals2618 said:
Again, this happens at every school. This is one of the downsides of recruiting becoming a popular place in sports. People can't handle knowing some of the things that go on.

They don't do it because other people do it, they do it because they have to. You have to recruit that way. College football is a business and you should view it as such.
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Are you sure? Looking at 247 and the final 2014 class rankings about 50% of the schools listed in the top 50 classes took LESS THAN 25 commitments. Obviously there are ALOT of schools who are not just "clearing things out" roster wise to make room to take a full class. So maybe it does not happen at every school?
 
#175
#175
LebanonVolunteer said:
I'd wager a very large amount that not every school recruits a "full class" every season like fans on this board hopes UT does. You will note ALOT of schools do not sign even 20 some years. What that tells me is they do not take the maximum every year. Yes, even in the SEC. The concept of "well, the SEC says 25 max so we should just drop enough kids every year to take the max" will come back to bite a coaching staff who is trying to sell "family", "unity", and "foundation". If the coaches want to run things like Saban does, they should drop all the "family talk" and push the "it's a business" mindset.
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Jones isn't going to take a full class every year. UT has recruited a full class twice. That may have something to do with the quality of the team he is coaching right now.

Recruits understand this more than fans do. Jones and Lawrence Lee decided to part ways. Mouhon and Jones is another example of shortening a class with both sides deciding to go their separate ways. Recruits and their families understand how this works.
 
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