The Presidential Election Was Legitimate. Conspiracies Are Not.

[Rasputin_Vol]

THE HAMMER Archives - The American Report

Far from over.

Assuming we have a just system in place, you would be correct.

 

[Vol Main]

Thanks for the background info link.

In January 2016, French said that he would vote for Donald Trump if he became the Republican nominee; he later changed his mind and said he would not vote for Trump.[18][19] Political commentator Bill Kristol, a supporter of the Stop Trump movement, named French as his choice to run for U.S. president as an independent conservative candidate to defeat presumptive Republican nominee Trump on May 31.[20]

So he's one of these NeverTrumper/Lincoln Project guys.

I am not a fan of French, and I'm certainly not an admirer of Bill Kristol. But the arguments French makes in this article appear to be sound enough for consideration by reasonable people. And let's face it; the man is not any sort of commie, atheist, liberal, or left wing radical -- the typical criticisms one sees from our resident brainiacs. BTW, opposing Trump from the beginning is hardly a disqualifier and should not be mentioned as a bad thing. Trump's downside was always known. If he were not an elected President, Trump would not receive a security clearance to work in the White House mail room, or any other place.

 

[volinbham]

That might be so if your parents neglected to notify their old voting commission of their move or to file a change of address with the USPS. The latter is something nearly everyone does when they move. It is actually a crime now to vote by mail in Tennessee if you are also registered in another state. To vote by mail, I had to sign a statement on the security envelope swearing that I was not registered in another state. I think it said something about a year in jail.

It's a crime to vote fraudulently no matter how it's done.

There are documented cases in those states that proactively mailed ballots to every person on the registration rolls where people who are dead or have moved still had ballots sent. Some people received multiple ballots.

Voter rolls are not up to date so the scenario I described is quite possible. It is not possible with in person voting or with traditional absentee voting where each voter requests a ballot.

 

[OHvol40]

We do live together. That's true. The rest is wrong. It's almost exclusively cities vs everywhere else. Ray Charles can see that and Stevie don't have to wonder. It's not that the people are bad it's the mafia party that controls them and their elections. Here's a break down how much it truly is a city vs everyone else situation when it comes to national elections.: First up: 2004 by county.

Next up 2008 by county

Next we have 2012

And then 2016:

As I said, Ray Charles can see this and Stevie don't have to wonder.

I understand that many here may be visual learners, but try and understand the concept. Just because you paint a swath of land red or blue doesn’t mean every single citizen in any given area votes one singular way. Hence why I said there are very few counties that are more lopsided than 70/30. Most are closer to 60/40 or 50/50. So no, it’s not wrong as you implied.

The second concept we need to understand is that acres don’t vote, people do. That is pretty self-explanatory and hopefully easy enough to grasp. So no matter what your map looks like, what generally matters is how the people of the country vote, no matter where they hang their hat.

 

[Vol Main]

It's a crime to vote fraudulently no matter how it's done.

There are documented cases in those states that proactively mailed ballots to every person on the registration rolls where people who are dead or have moved still had ballots sent. Some people received multiple ballots.

Voter rolls are not up to date so the scenario I described is quite possible. It is not possible with in person voting or with traditional absentee voting where each voter requests a ballot.

I was always a little skeptical of states massively using mail-in ballots, but the record shows it to be a system which does work. "The conservative Heritage Foundation, which has warned of the risks of mail voting, found 14 cases of attempted mail fraud out of roughly 15.5 million ballots cast in Oregon since that state started conducting elections by mail in 1998." Trump appears to oppose mail-in ballots for the simple reason that he wants to discourage voting, in order to gain a personal advantage in the Election. So far, nearly all of the objections made in his law suits were dismissed by courts which heard the arguments of his attorneys. who arrived in court with little or no evidence. Of course we know how Trump operates, by sowing doubt and fear in our government. If he wins an election, the system is good. If he loses an election, the system is bad. The man has no integrity.

Explainer: Fraud is rare in U.S. mail-in voting. Here are the methods that prevent it

 

[volinbham]

I was always a little skeptical of states massively using mail-in ballots, but the record shows it to be a system which does work. "The conservative Heritage Foundation, which has warned of the risks of mail voting, found 14 cases of attempted mail fraud out of roughly 15.5 million ballots cast in Oregon since that state started conducting elections by mail in 1998." Trump appears to oppose mail-in ballots for the simple reason that he wanted to discourage voting, in order to gain a personal advantage in the Election. So far, nearly all of the objections made in his law suits were dismissed by courts which heard the arguments of his attorneys. who arrived in court with little or no evidence.

Explainer: Fraud is rare in U.S. mail-in voting. Here are the methods that prevent it

It is a system that can work if done correctly. To counter your article there's a piece from the NYTs in 2012 I believe where they discuss why mail voting is more prone to fraud.

It is more prone to fraud than in person voting.

A state that has been doing it for years is different than states who tried to adopt it less than 6 months before an election and we are seeing the results of that last minute change in rules.

I'm not making any claim that there was sufficient fraud to sway the election or that any Trump lawsuit has merit.

I am pointing out that mail in voting (particularly where unsolicited ballots are mailed to anyone on the voter rolls) is more prone to fraud than other methods we use and we ought to work to get it right rather than pretend it isn't the case.

 

[Vol Main]

It is a system that can work if done correctly. To counter your article there's a piece from the NYTs in 2012 I believe where they discuss why mail voting is more prone to fraud.

It is more prone to fraud than in person voting.

A state that has been doing it for years is different than states who tried to adopt it less than 6 months before an election and we are seeing the results of that last minute change in rules.

I'm not making any claim that there was sufficient fraud to sway the election or that any Trump lawsuit has merit.

I am pointing out that mail in voting (particularly where unsolicited ballots are mailed to anyone on the voter rolls) is more prone to fraud than other methods we use and we ought to work to get it right rather than pretend it isn't the case.

I might agree with this, had I not once voted on an electronic voting machine, which produced no paper trail. I had no confidence in the integrity of that system.

 

[Vol Main]

Philadelphia GOP election leader calls voter fraud claims ‘completely ridiculous' as Trump blasts him on Twitter

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

No, they are not. You have to be a registered voter to receive a mail-in ballot. To be a registered voter, you have to provide proof of citizenship and residence and sign a document for a signature check. They do not just mail thoese things out to everybody in the phone book.

Yeah I guess that couple whose cat received a mail-in ballot was a registered voter. I guess the cat showed proof of citizenship.

So I just want to know if this would be strange. Is it cool for a person to receive a mail-in ballot from 2 different states?

 

[davethevol]

Philadelphia GOP election leader calls voter fraud claims ‘completely ridiculous' as Trump blasts him on Twitter

I don’t trust anyone saying flat out that the claims are baseless without an actual review. There are people on both sides of the aisle that hate Trump and would go to extremes to keep him from getting re-elected.

 

[USAFgolferVol]

The popular vote has NEVER determined anything. Thats stupid. Otherwise California and New York would determine elections for the whole nation. We have the Electoral College so small states have a say.

You're right, the popular vote doesn't determine the winner. That being said, Trump spent months after the 2016 election trying to find fraud in the popular vote because he couldn't stand the fact that Hillary got more votes than him. Had an exclusively Republican commission looking into it. Found out there wasn't any fraud whatsoever. Trump is all about himself. We've seen it for four years

 

[happy-go_vol]

Thanks for the background info link.



So he's one of these NeverTrumper/Lincoln Project guys.

Thise lincoln guys didnt do too well in the overall election.

 

[happy-go_vol]

You're right, the popular vote doesn't determine the winner. That being said, Trump spent months after the 2016 election trying to find fraud in the popular vote because he couldn't stand the fact that Hillary got more votes than him. Had an exclusively Republican commission looking into it. Found out there wasn't any fraud whatsoever. Trump is all about himself. We've seen it for four years

But you said Trump was not legitimate, you fools made up a bunch of lies about him and even tried to impeach him. Oh you hypocrites.

 

[USAFgolferVol]

But you said Trump was not legitimate, you fools made up a bunch of lies about him and even tried to impeach him. Oh you hypocrites.

I never said that or even insinuated it. I didn't make anything up either. Get back under that rock of yours. Your broad brushing gets old and exposes your remarkable ignorance

 

[happy-go_vol]

I never said that or even insinuated it. I didn't make anything up either. Get back under that rock of yours. Your broad brushing gets old and exposes your remarkable ignorance

Oh, you absolutely did. You support a party who used the cia, fbi to go after trumo. You support those marxists..

 

[USAFgolferVol]

Oh, you absolutely did. You support a party who used the cia, fbi to go after trumo. You support those marxists..

Oh, I absolutely didn't as I'm not a member of either party. Was a Republican for most of my adult life until about 6 years ago. I voted against Trump

 

[SlingBlayde]

I'd just like to ask the anti-"voter fraud" crowd one question... do you honestly think a party that spent the last 3 years and millions of dollars trying to impeach Trump would leave this election up to chance?

 

[RockyTop85]

Yet to be determined. That system is improper to begin with period. You know it and I know it. Our entire system is broken.

“Yet to be determined?” Lol so you’re admitting that it’s completely baseless?

What a ****ing crybaby. There’s absolutely nothing illegitimate about voting by mail. You’re just being a bitch because your boy lost by the biggest margin of any incumbent since Herbert Hoover.

The constitution doesn’t really provide for popular vote in presidential elections, but all 50 states have adopted that format. Constitutional provisions regarding legislative elections leave regulation of the process up to the states.

I’m old enough to remember when Republicans thought states should control their own elections, way back in May of 2020.

“I’m not opposed to vote-by-mail programs,” said Rep. Rodney Davis (R-Ill.), the ranking member on the House Rules Committee. But states, he said, should determine how to conduct their own elections, adapting to specific circumstances.

“We as Republicans have a distinct, different philosophy on what the federal government’s role in elections should be. We believe that the states and localities are the best ones to get their voters to the polls and recognize what’s going to give everybody an opportunity to cast a vote,” Davis continued.

Republicans and Democrats barrel toward collision on voting by mail

The states passed these procedures and each state has methods for verifying that the votes were legitimate. There’s not even a theory by which these states would use vote by mail to commit massive fraud to the tune of 15k+ votes. There’s not been a lawsuit that alleges fraud on that scale. The ones that have alleged smaller scale fraud have been tossed out of court for lack of evidence. Finally, afaik, the only battleground state that used this process was Nevada, and it is worth 6 electoral votes. Not enough to give the election to Trump.

Next.

 

[calban]

I'd just like to ask the anti-"voter fraud" crowd one question... do you honestly think a party that spent the last 3 years and millions of dollars trying to impeach Trump would leave this election up to chance?

Well they weren't smart enough to cover that up so, let's get the evidence to court.

 

[marcusluvsvols]

Well they weren't smart enough to cover that up so, let's get the evidence to court.

Skip to 34mins for examples of cheating in the Dominion program used to count votes, as well as explanation of the different methods used for fraud electronically etc





Also this...anything over 100% is automatically fraud, most states average about 65%....

 

[82_VOL_83]

“Yet to be determined?” Lol so you’re admitting that it’s completely baseless?

What a ****ing crybaby. There’s absolutely nothing illegitimate about voting by mail. You’re just being a bitch because your boy lost by the biggest margin of any incumbent since Herbert Hoover.

The constitution doesn’t really provide for popular vote in presidential elections, but all 50 states have adopted that format. Constitutional provisions regarding legislative elections leave regulation of the process up to the states.

I’m old enough to remember when Republicans thought states should control their own elections, way back in May of 2020.

“I’m not opposed to vote-by-mail programs,” said Rep. Rodney Davis (R-Ill.), the ranking member on the House Rules Committee. But states, he said, should determine how to conduct their own elections, adapting to specific circumstances.

“We as Republicans have a distinct, different philosophy on what the federal government’s role in elections should be. We believe that the states and localities are the best ones to get their voters to the polls and recognize what’s going to give everybody an opportunity to cast a vote,” Davis continued.

Republicans and Democrats barrel toward collision on voting by mail

The states passed these procedures and each state has methods for verifying that the votes were legitimate. There’s not even a theory by which these states would use vote by mail to commit massive fraud to the tune of 15k+ votes. There’s not been a lawsuit that alleges fraud on that scale. The ones that have alleged smaller scale fraud have been tossed out of court for lack of evidence. Finally, afaik, the only battleground state that used this process was Nevada, and it is worth 6 electoral votes. Not enough to give the election to Trump.

Next.

Yawn

 

[82_VOL_83]

I understand that many here may be visual learners, but try and understand the concept. Just because you paint a swath of land red or blue doesn’t mean every single citizen in any given area votes one singular way. Hence why I said there are very few counties that are more lopsided than 70/30. Most are closer to 60/40 or 50/50. So no, it’s not wrong as you implied.

The second concept we need to understand is that acres don’t vote, people do. That is pretty self-explanatory and hopefully easy enough to grasp. So no matter what your map looks like, what generally matters is how the people of the country vote, no matter where they hang their hat.

Acres should vote.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I understand that many here may be visual learners, but try and understand the concept. Just because you paint a swath of land red or blue doesn’t mean every single citizen in any given area votes one singular way. Hence why I said there are very few counties that are more lopsided than 70/30. Most are closer to 60/40 or 50/50. So no, it’s not wrong as you implied.

The second concept we need to understand is that acres don’t vote, people do. That is pretty self-explanatory and hopefully easy enough to grasp. So no matter what your map looks like, what generally matters is how the people of the country vote, no matter where they hang their hat.

But wait, at least admit that people that live and work in a large metropolitan area will have a different view on life than someone that lives and works in a rural area. The needs of a metro voter will not be the same as those of someone in the country. Most people in the city rely heavily on government services that the city provides because it is convenient and cost effective to provide these services in a more densely populated area. Knowing this, those that live in the city are more willing to pay more for those conveniences. On the contrary, the rural voter may sacrifice government services for more take home pay and either do without those services or find some other cheaper way of getting things done.

 

[RockyTop85]

I have nothing, I’m mad that Trump suffered the most humiliating defeat since Herbert Hoover and I’m still crying about it 9 days later. Leave me along, you big meanie and let me cry in peace.

FIFY

 

[OHvol40]

But wait, at least admit that people that live and work in a large metropolitan area will have a different view on life than someone that lives and works in a rural area. The needs of a metro voter will not be the same as those of someone in the country. Most people in the city rely heavily on government services that the city provides because it is convenient and cost effective to provide these services in a more densely populated area. Knowing this, those that live in the city are more willing to pay more for those conveniences. On the contrary, the rural voter may sacrifice government services for more take home pay and either do without those services or find some other cheaper way of getting things done.

Well, most American cities are transient places. There is a lot of mobility from city to rural and vice versa. It depends on which cities you’re talking about as far as public transportation and other similar services. Right now I live 40 miles from Pittsburgh and I’m working in a couple hospitals downtown. Most people in Pittsburgh commute. Same with Columbus OH as I’ve lived there as well. I grew up in rural TN & rural OH. The only difference from living in cities vs rural is the amount of people, amount of businesses, and traffic.

Living in the megalopolis or coastal California may be different, but I think the difference between “urban” and “rural” in a majority of America isn’t as stark as some here want to make it. I, along with a majority of my coworkers, definitely live in what is considered rural PA and work in what is considered urban PA... so putting people in a dichotomous category based on urban vs rural is just a way to try an marginalize people and scapegoat the marginalized.

Again, none of this makes my original post that you quoted any less true, btw. The majority of the country is marbled together with mostly shades of purple.