Trump calls for terminating or at least suspending the Constitution

#101
#101
n_huffhines said:
Guess what?...ideological authoritarian doesn't mean implementation of a scheme. And actually, I have a lot to back up this opinion.

Don't feel bad. I had the same argument with many other people who have no idea what "ideological" means.

Trump Is an Ideological Authoritarian
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What POTUS wasn't an "ideological authoritarian"? Everyone since and including Lincoln has done their level best to increase the power of the executive office.
 
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#102
#102
GVF said:
Pence carrying out his duties as allotted to him in an honest and ethical manner should make him a front runner this cycle. It won't, but it should. It'd be a breath of fresh air having a person of integrity in the position.
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Pence did the right thing; there was never really a choice or question in the matter. Trump's throwing him under the bus was a misguided, POS move.

Pence has no business in the WH. He's another Repub who'd try to play a friendly of checkers with the most radical Dem party since Reconstruction while they knifed him under the table. He isn't built for this fight.
 
#103
#103
hog88 said:
What POTUS wasn't an "ideological authoritarian"? Everyone since and including Lincoln has done their level best to increase the power of the executive office.
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At least you aren't denying it.

Call them all IA's, IDC. But Trump is a standout with his supporting evidence.
 
#106
#106
NCFisher said:
Pence did the right thing; there was never really a choice or question in the matter. Trump's throwing him under the bus was a misguided, POS move.

Pence has no business in the WH. He's another Repub who'd try to play a friendly of checkers with the most radical Dem party since Reconstruction while they knifed him under the table. He isn't built for this fight.
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Unfortunately, that's probably a true statement. People of his character are who you'd ideally want in all levels of gov't, especially the WH.
 
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#107
#107
NCFisher said:
You should learn to read your own link which notes McCabe was selected for audit in 2021; was Trump president?
Oddly, Vanity Fair's Bess Levin doesn't mention when Comey was selected for audit, which was July 2022; was Trump president? IRS inspector general says intensive audits of former FBI Director Comey and deputy were random | CNN Politics

Did Trump use a chokehold - or held hostage a Dairy Queen gift card - to weaponize Joe Biden's IRS against Comey and McCabe?
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I read the link, and that doesn't change the fact that while he was President, Trump attempted to use the IRS as a means of attacking his enemies. It was an abuse of power.
 
#109
#109
n_huffhines said:
We'll see. Hopefully you are right, but he's got the stop the steal acolytes taking over precinct committee spots. That's how so many Trump people won noms this past cycle.

It's gonna be hilarious if he loses the nom and turns his election conspiracies against the GOP. They'll deserve it.
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In the same spirit as this, it would not surprise me if Trump failed to win the Republican Party nomination, but then ran as an independent in the general election.

It would be Trump's Nero Decree against the Republican Party. He would split the Republican vote down the middle, and guarantee that a Democrat wins the 2024 Presidential General election. He is vindictive enough to this. He was asked about this possibility many times in 2015 and in early 2016, and would never rule it out. Trump's doesn't care about the Republican Party. He only cares about himself. It's either win or burn it to the ground for him.
 
#110
#110
BowlBrother85 said:
I read the link, and that doesn't change the fact that while he was President, Trump attempted to use the IRS as a means of attacking his enemies. It was an abuse of power.
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But you responded to this:
Rasputin_Vol said:
He obviously wasn't able to implement a single authoritarian scheme during his entire administration. And you select one extreme example at the very end of his term as your proof of calling him ideologically authoritarian. The only true authoritarian traits he showed outside of that extreme example was him running his mouth and calling out the media. Last I checked, he didn't weaponize the alphabet agencies to go after his political enemies. It's not like Trump was Obama or Joe Biden in that regard.
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Your post doesn't counter that unless you contend Biden is acting on Trump's behalf. The fact is Biden, not Trump, has actually weaponized letter agencies. I'll be happy to compare the list.
 
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#111
#111
WBO said:
At least Biden knows you cannot set aside the Constitution no matter your facetious claims that he has. But to your boy, nothing matters except not having to face the fact he lost. Just like you Hog. And btw, according to your math Trump lost by a million votes (80 to 81). It was a much bigger loss.
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FYP.
 
#112
#112
hog88 said:
Do we need to go find examples of authoritarian ideology/actions from his predecessors? Hell Obama ordered the execution of a US citizen without a trial.
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Which Trump is fine with. You're pointing out how they are the same. I'm pointing out how they are different. I'm pointing out one of many things that is far above and beyond what anybody else would profess to believe.
 
#113
#113
hog88 said:
What POTUS wasn't an "ideological authoritarian"? Everyone since and including Lincoln has done their level best to increase the power of the executive office.
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But, but Trump is a narcissist, too...and read a Hitler book.
It appears some don't understand how big your ego has to be to conclude "Damn, America has a shite ton of problems and out of 340M people, I'm the guy to fix it".
 
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#114
#114
NCFisher said:
But you responded to this:


Your post doesn't counter that unless you contend Biden is acting on Trump's behalf. The fact is Biden, not Trump, has actually weaponized letter agencies. I'll be happy to compare the list.
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I understand what the IRS is claiming now ... but it's bull $hit.

The fact is, that at the time the audits of McCabe and Comey were conducted, the Commissioner of the IRS was a Trump appointee named Charles Rettig... Rettig was serving out the end of his 5 year term under Biden ... but once again, he had been appointed by Trump. Rettig was serving under Trump when Trump ordered the audits to be conducted, and he was still serving when they were conducted.

https://thehill.com/policy/finance/3709576-rettig-out-as-IRS-commissioner/

^^^ From the above article in The Hill. ^^^

"Democrats were also mad about the special type of audits given to two former top FBI officials who became political enemies of Trump after they left office. They said that it was statistically highly suspicious that both officials should have received the audits and that it looked like punishment for disloyalty."
 
#115
#115
n_huffhines said:
Which Trump is fine with. You're pointing out how they are the same. I'm pointing out how they are different. I'm pointing out one of many things that is far above and beyond what anybody else would profess to believe.
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“I have the power and I will use it in defense of the middle class,” he has said. “We’re going to do everything we can, wherever we can, with or without Congress.”
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Obama's Disdain For The Constitution Means We Risk Losing Our Republic

Just the first link that popped up on a google. It's a pointless discussion because both of us could find dozens of links demonstrating authoritarian ideology from former presidents.
 
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#116
#116
hog88 said:
Obama's Disdain For The Constitution Means We Risk Losing Our Republic

Just the first link that popped up on a google. It's a pointless discussion because both of us could find dozens of links demonstrating authoritarian ideology from former presidents.
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You're essentially talking about the executive taking more power, which yes, every president has done. The link you shared pointed out Obama legislated from the oval office to remove a mandate from a law, which doesn't really sound all that authoritarian. Everybody wants to and does grow their power but when I think ideological authoritarian, I'm thinking people who would overturn elections, or endorse Draconian punishment of criminals, or your example of killing a terrorist without due process...

And you act Obama invented legislating from the Oval Office.

1670260280563.png

Presidential Signing Statements - 2001 to present
 
#117
#117
BowlBrother85 said:
I understand what the IRS is claiming now ... but it's bull $hit.

The fact is, that at the time the audits of McCabe and Comey were conducted, the Commissioner of the IRS was a Trump appointee named Charles Rettig... Rettig was serving out the end of his 5 year term under Biden ... but once again, he had been appointed by Trump. He was serving under Trump when Trump ordered the audits to be conducted, and he was still serving when they were conducted.

https://thehill.com/policy/finance/3709576-rettig-out-as-IRS-commissioner/

^^^ From the above article in The Hill. ^^^

"Democrats were also mad about the special type of audits given to two former top FBI officials who became political enemies of Trump after they left office. They said that it was statistically highly suspicious that both officials should have received the audits and that it looked like punishment for disloyalty."
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AH hah! - so The Hill points out that Dems are mad. And suspicious.
Didn't we already know that?

I'd think it easy enough to prove this purposeful and not statistical anomaly. Dems still hold congress for another month and can investigate, something they haven't in well over a year. That's how you know the difference between bread/circuses for the Dem masses, and a genuine scandal.
 
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#118
#118
NCFisher said:
AH hah! - so The Hill points out that Dems are mad. And suspicious.
Didn't we already know that?

I'd think it easy enough to prove this purposeful and not statistical anomaly. Dems still hold congress for another month and can investigate, something they haven't in well over a year. That's how you know the difference between bread/circuses for the Dem masses, and a genuine scandal.
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3 facts you can't get away from :

1) Charles Rettig was appointed Commissioner of the IRS by Donald Trump.

2) John Kelly claims that while Trump was President, he demanded that the IRS conduct audits of both Comey and McCabe.

3) Charles Rettig was still the Commissioner of the IRS when those audits were conducted.
 
#119
#119
n_huffhines said:
You're essentially talking about the executive taking more power, which yes, every president has done. The link you shared pointed out Obama legislated from the oval office to remove a mandate from a law, which doesn't really sound all that authoritarian. Everybody wants to and does grow their power but when I think ideological authoritarian, I'm thinking people who would overturn elections, or endorse Draconian punishment of criminals, or your example of killing a terrorist without due process...

And you act Obama invented legislating from the Oval Office.

View attachment 520953

Presidential Signing Statements - 2001 to present
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No I clearly pointed out in an earlier post it’s been happening since Lincoln.
 
#120
#120
BowlBrother85 said:
3 facts you can't get away from :

1) Charles Rettig was appointed Commissioner of the IRS by Donald Trump.

2) John Kelly claims that while Trump was President, he demanded that the IRS conduct audits of both Comey and McCabe.

3) Charles Rettig was still the Commissioner of the IRS when those audits were conducted.
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I don't have to get away from them; see my last reply. Dems have shown no restraint in creating hoax scandals to investigate; why not this one? Again, they've had more than a year to do so. Aside from no president should even request such a thing, this is more thin gruel for people like you.

Damn, it's hard to be an authoritarian from your own couch in MAL, eh?
 
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#121
#121
NCFisher said:
I don't have to get away from them; see my last reply. Dems have shown no restraint in creating hoax scandals to investigate; why not this one? Again, they've had more than a year to do so. Aside from no president should even request such a thing, this is more thin gruel for people like you.

Damn, it's hard to be an authoritarian from your own couch in MAL, eh?
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It was John Kelly who claimed that Donald Trump ordered those audits. He is not a Democrat. In fact, he was Trump's longest serving White House Chief of Staff.
 
#122
#122
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#124
#124
I havent read this thread, I imagine it's a good bit of denial, whatabouism, and re'ing.

But this is one of those reasons I have ALWAYs disliked Trump. I would point out this would cover removing the protections of the 2A. And there is a reason I bought my rifle in December 2016 after Trump had won and not earlier when it looked like Hilary would win.
 
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