War in Ukraine

[volbound1700]

when this kicked off, i said it was going to be a slavic bloodbath that we want nothing to do with.

Russians talk out both sides of their face concerning Ukrainians, and have for a long time. Even russians opposed to the war are bigoted against ukrainians.

Ukrainians either believe they are russian, or they hate Russians with a passion.

During Russias war on Georgia, Putin lied and claimed there were no such ethnic issues in Ukraine and they had no plans on taking crimea. There were always issues there and he intentionally inflamed them and used it as a reason to act.

We played into it every step of the way despite it being obvious what Putin intended.

All we accomplished was getting the old school nationalists to believe now was their time to gain real independence, and thats why Putin was calling us nazis. Because those people's grandfather's sided with nazis.

dont get involved with the former parts of the soviet Union unless you're ready to go to war.

Now we'll see what turkey does in central asia

Ukrainian Cossacks were a critical part of building Czarist Russia and I do think that under the Czars, the Russians and Ukrainians got along well. Stalin had a way of bullying and dividing minorities in the USSR that has caused havoc to this day. I think a lot of the ill-will dates from Soviet era.

Also about a third of Ukrainians were outside of Russian Rule until the 1920s and 1940s. These, Ruthenians, were under Austrian and then (some of them) went under Polish rule. That plays a part as they have less ethnic connections to the Russian State.

 

[dalton_vol]

If you guys on here are so Pro ukraine, why don't you just volunteer and fight.

 

[LSU-SIU]

If you guys on here are so Pro ukraine, why don't you just volunteer and fight.

If they are pro-ukrainian, why do they want them all to die? That is the only path at this point.

I feel bad for them but... not much I can do about it.

 

[apevol]

If you guys on here are so Pro ukraine, why don't you just volunteer and fight.

derpy doo derp dee derp

 

[dalton_vol]

So Europe wants to get in the war now because America wants peace. Is that what I understand and suddenly America is bad for not wanting to go to war against Russia. So Trump is now a Russian agent because he wants peace. Are you people insane?

 

[volbound1700]

If you guys on here are so Pro ukraine, why don't you just volunteer and fight.

Heck, at the very least, they could start a GoFundMe and pay Ukraine. I point that out on Facebook to a few posters and one did a major meltdown about it. Someone posted this already but this is more anti-Trump behavior than being about really wanting to help Ukraine.

 

[volbound1700]

So Europe wants to get in the war now because America wants peace. Is that what I understand and suddenly America is bad for not wanting to go to war against Russia. So Trump is now a Russian agent because he wants peace. Are you people insane?

Let Europe handle.

Germany can get another crack at Russia again. Maybe they can get the Lebensraum they want so much.

 

[dalton_vol]

Zelensky is mad because Trump wants him to negotiate peace. And all you warmongers on here agree with zelensky. Is that the gist of it?

 

[apevol]

Ukrainian Cossacks were a critical part of building Czarist Russia and I do think that under the Czars, the Russians and Ukrainians got along well. Stalin had a way of bullying and dividing minorities in the USSR that has caused havoc to this day. I think a lot of the ill-will dates from Soviet era.

Also about a third of Ukrainians were outside of Russian Rule until the 1920s and 1940s. These, Ruthenians, were under Austrian and then (some of them) went under Polish rule. That plays a part as they have less ethnic connections to the Russian State.

theres also the Soviet's stabbing the Ukrainian anarchists in the back and slaughtering them

 

[dalton_vol]

Heck, at the very least, they could start a GoFundMe and pay Ukraine. I point that out on Facebook to a few posters and one did a major meltdown about it. Someone posted this already but this is more anti-Trump behavior than being about really wanting to help Ukraine.

Exactly. This isn't about helping Ukraine but it's about going against Trump. We're going to start World War 3 just to get back at Trump. Is that what I'm understanding now

 

[apevol]

Zelensky is mad because Trump wants him to negotiate peace. And all you warmongers on here agree with zelensky. Is that the gist of it?

do you even read the conversations that are occuring?

 

[volbound1700]

theres also the Soviet's stabbing the Ukrainian anarchists in the back and slaughtering them

To be fair, Anarchist are literally the worse type of human beings on earth. They just want to create misery.

The big common connection between Russia and Ukraine prior to the USSR was religion. The area had been constantly under attack by Islamic Tartars or Catholic Poland-Lithuania. Ukrainians and Russians (or Muscovites as they were called then) were both Eastern Orthodox and proud of it. Many of the Ukrainians saw the Tsardom of Moscow as liberates when they took over them in the 1500s and 1600s. Also keep in mind that a lot of Southern Ukraine had been seized and settled by the Khanate of Crimea. The Russians drove those Tartars out of their lands to be repopulated by Ukrainians.

 

[hog88]

Heck, at the very least, they could start a GoFundMe and pay Ukraine. I point that out on Facebook to a few posters and one did a major meltdown about it. Someone posted this already but this is more anti-Trump behavior than being about really wanting to help Ukraine.

Many of our posters here would have completely opposite views on Ukraine had Trump been reelected in 2020 and the war handled the exact same way.

 

[apevol]

To be fair, Anarchist are literally the worse type of human beings on earth. They just want to create misery.

The big common connection between Russia and Ukraine prior to the USSR was religion. The area had been constantly under attack by Islamic Tartars or Catholic Poland-Lithuania. Ukrainians and Russians (or Muscovites as they were called then) were both Eastern Orthodox and proud of it. Many of the Ukrainians saw the Tsardom of Moscow as liberates when they took over them in the 1500s and 1600s. Also keep in mind that a lot of Southern Ukraine had been seized and settled by the Khanate of Crimea. The Russians drove those Tartars out of their lands to be repopulated by Ukrainians.

the mongol yoke created an ancestral trauma in that region that may never go away. WWII just added to it

 

[LSU-SIU]

Let Europe handle.

Germany can get another crack at Russia again. Maybe they can get the Lebensraum they want so much.

Russian be like....

That would be like the most interesting few weeks. 2025 Germany isn't 1939 Germany. I doubt anyone will ever witness anything like 1939 Germany again, its actually quite incredible as an engineering and planning model.

 

[Orange_Crush]

That there is another deal in place that we don't know about and not privy to as well. Russia has been our sworn enemy since the 1950's. What's changed? Russia is not to be trusted and it seems like we are giving them a lot of leadway and support.
Sure, everybody wants this over and we may benefit from the enriched resources of Ukraine. We may not. It appears we are gambling and dealing with Russia is very risky.
Land is the commodity now, not oil. Tough to know what is going on behind the scenes, but the common denominators are Russia and Putin which is not good for the US.
Turning Ukraine into a war zone with Nato is not an option either.
I just don't see this ending well for us as China sits and watches.

Another common denominator is the US interfering in the geopolitics of the area for the last 30 years or so. Russia had a buffer between themselves and enemy forces. Ukraine had a pretty neutral, peaceful regime and everything was OK. But the US went in and fomented a regime change, started rattling Ukraine/NATO membership, etc...

It looks to me that after around 30 years of wanting that buffer back, Russia took one by force.

Now, I'm not excusing Putin. But I am adding some color to the "common denominators" narrative for this reason:

Putin is winning this thing by attrition, but Russia is also bleeding out pretty heavily on this. I'd bet he wants out almost as much as anyone, as long as he gets that buffer Russia has wanted. So, Russia keeps the land they've taken. The US goes into a non-military, commercial mineral agreement that basically makes Ukraine a no-go zone for everyone. US gets some of its money back. The war ends. Ukraine keeps its sovereignty. Men stop dying.

It's not about acting like Russia is up for sainthood. But it's also not treating Russia like a sworn enemy for no other reason than to keep seeing men die. It's probably very pragmatic, smart global politics.

 

[apevol]

Russian be like....

That would be like the most interesting few weeks. 2025 Germany isn't 1939 Germany. I doubt anyone will ever witness anything like 1939 Germany again, its actually quite incredible as an engineering and planning model.

its called mortgaging your entire future soley for the sake of war, as plunder is the only way to keep your economy from collapsing in on itself. Nothing special about Nazi Germany. we've done something similar for a much longer time

 

[Orange_Crush]

So Europe wants to get in the war now because America wants peace. Is that what I understand and suddenly America is bad for not wanting to go to war against Russia. So Trump is now a Russian agent because he wants peace. Are you people insane?

That about covers it. Also, generally speaking, these people that further this narrative are often the same ones that caution against believing anything DOGE/Waste related until all the receipts have been confirmed in triplicate, by neutral sources like MSNBC, James Comey, and Adam Shiff.

 

[apevol]

Another common denominator is the US interfering in the geopolitics of the area for the last 30 years or so. Russia had a buffer between themselves and enemy forces. Ukraine had a pretty neutral, peaceful regime and everything was OK. But the US went in and fomented a regime change, started rattling Ukraine/NATO membership, etc...

It looks to me that after around 30 years of wanting that buffer back, Russia took one by force.

Now, I'm not excusing Putin. But I am adding some color to the "common denominators" narrative for this reason:

Putin is winning this thing by attrition, but Russia is also bleeding out pretty heavily on this. I'd bet he wants out almost as much as anyone, as long as he gets that buffer Russia has wanted. So, Russia keeps the land they've taken. The US goes into a non-military, commercial mineral agreement that basically makes Ukraine a no-go zone for everyone. US gets some of its money back. The war ends. Ukraine keeps its sovereignty. Men stop dying.

It's not about acting like Russia is up for sainthood. But it's also not treating Russia like a sworn enemy for no other reason than to keep seeing men die. It's probably very pragmatic, smart global politics.

Russia consolidates and takes whatever else they want from Ukraine after we're done sifting through their dirt. They've already got a large part of the new oil and gas fields. Europe should float the idea of lletting whats left of ukraine join the EU in exchange for buying russian energy again

 

[volbound1700]

its called mortgaging your entire future soley for the sake of war, as plunder is the only way to keep your economy from collapsing in on itself. Nothing special about Nazi Germany. we've done something similar for a much longer time

The big difference (and you can see this with Russian Performance in Ukraine or how Italy approached WW2) was the ability of the Nazis to turn their soldiers into extreme zealots that would put up with anything to win the war. Germany fought almost down to the last man. It was a stinking cult.

You can tell the Russian soldiers, especially early in the Ukraine war, were very disinterested. You never saw that from Hitler's army which was always ready to go and ready to fight.

Japan also had that similar cult-like following in WW2. It made both of them tough adversaries.

Agree that 2025 Germany is not 1933 Germany but over a decade it could become that. Keep in mind that Hitler's Germany also included Prussia, Austria, Czechia, Silesia, and Pomerania. There were even more Germans at that time and it had more lands and resources.

I will say that Germany in 1914 was actually more powerful. I think it was the most powerful state on Earth. Britain was stronger on the sea but Germany had the best land army and probably the #2 navy in 1914. Germany would be in such a better place if 1914 had never happened.

 

[volbound1700]

Russia consolidates and takes whatever else they want from Ukraine after we're done sifting through their dirt. They've already got a large part of the new oil and gas fields. Europe should float the idea of lletting whats left of ukraine join the EU in exchange for buying russian energy again

I think the secret is to get Russia economically invested into the West. This is what keeps China from starting crap IMO. Adam Smith was a genius. You can create world peace by tying the economics together.

 

[apevol]

The big difference (and you can see this with Russian Performance in Ukraine or how Italy approached WW2) was the ability of the Nazis to turn their soldiers into extreme zealots that would put up with anything to win the war. Germany fought almost down to the last man. It was a stinking cult.

You can tell the Russian soldiers, especially early in the Ukraine war, were very disinterested. You never saw that from Hitler's army which was always ready to go and ready to fight.

Japan also had that similar cult-like following in WW2. It made both of them tough adversaries.

Agree that 2025 Germany is not 1933 Germany but over a decade it could become that. Keep in mind that Hitler's Germany also included Prussia, Austria, Czechia, Silesia, and Pomerania. There were even more Germans at that time and it had more lands and resources.

I will say that Germany in 1914 was actually more powerful. I think it was the most powerful state on Earth. Britain was stronger on the sea but Germany had the best land army and probably the #2 navy in 1914. Germany would be in such a better place if 1914 had never happened.

I'll agree with that, but one thing russians have is they eventually get so sick of war that they start taking it out on the enemy. They're a special people

 

[apevol]

I think the secret is to get Russia economically invested into the West. This is what keeps China from starting crap IMO. Adam Smith was a genius. You can create world peace by tying the economics together.

i think there are enough people on this planet willing for us all to go down in flames for it to happen.

 

[Orange_Crush]

I think the secret is to get Russia economically invested into the West. This is what keeps China from starting crap IMO. Adam Smith was a genius. You can create world peace by tying the economics together.

At the very least, you have a non-military US presence there, which will stabilize the area. Russia is not going to go in and start attacking US civilians any more than the US is going to put boots on ground at Russia's back door. It's actually a great stabilizing idea.

 

[PEPPERJAX]

I think the secret is to get Russia economically invested into the West. This is what keeps China from starting crap IMO. Adam Smith was a genius. You can create world peace by tying the economics together.

There is only so much Russian caviar to go around my friend.